Collar V Harness?

[Alwaysgrey]

We joined puppy classes a while back and our trainer seems erm quite old school (no clicker training, but does do reward training and is quite free with the water spray). She likes all dogs to wear a collar. I’m working hard with Grey pup on lead walking (he’s 5 months). But he’s terrible. Loves people and other dogs. Although we are very bonded he still pulls. Trainer thinks harnesses are the devils work and cause a dog to pull more but I’m worried we could be causing neck problems for Grey dog given how much he pulls.

We adopted a rescue who pulled so badly, that I struggled to hold him. Collar or harness made no difference to the pull, but it did make a difference to his comfort.

I trained him. Bloody hard work as it was 3 years of bad practice to undo, but we got there in the end, and now on a normal walk he doesn't pull much . He still pulls when in a new place, but we have to stop still and he backs up and stops too.

We use a harness with a handle on top. (so i can grab him!)

Exactly steppermum. When you got him he wasn't trained, you put in all the good work and now he is trained properly and doesn't pull in his harness.

All it takes is training and sometimes, like your dog, that can take a long time. For some people that's too much like hard work and they'd rather resort to hurting the dog to get the results they want.

fwiw I am not sure dogs really do "want to please us" just for the sake of it. I think they like doing things that get them things they like (skinner) and sometimes those 'things' are the chance to do an activity they enjoy (premack) or that doing things that are intrinsically enjoyable (pavlov), such as eating, playing, shagging etc. I think they also will do things to avoid stuff they don't like, including the cessation of an enjoyable activity. I don't think human approval means anything to them unless they have learned to associate it with some of the above.

I also have a bit of time for old Barbara . I think she loved her dogs and genuinely wanted what was best for them. I also think she was one of the first people to popularise the importance of the dog/owner relationship. Brilliant. In terms of training methods, I think she did the best she could with the knowledge of the time but that knowledge was limited. I was talking to someone who bred and trained dogs back in the 70s a few months ago - and is off the BW school of thought. Out of sheer coincidence we were talking of loose lead walking and she was advocating a choke chain and a bit horrified that I didn't use one. When I explained why not and why I chose to use different methods she was thoughtful and then said "yes. That would work too. In fact, that's probably a better way of doing it". True story.

I am always genuinely unclear what it is about a choke chain that would make the dog listen to the owner if not the fear or threat that the chain might close tight and hurt or be uncomfortable? Honestly and genuinely confused as to what the psychology is meant to be if not aversive? Ditto prongs, though I have spent a lot less time thinking about them, tbh. If there was something intrinsic about the feel or sound of a chain or a prong that wasn't aversive then why wouldn't a chain with a stopper to prevent it closing tightly work?

I have always assumed a choke chain was aversive. They don't pull because they don't like the choke feel. Nothing to do with the human at the other end of the lead surely?

I much prefer harnesses but my dog hates them and runs away as soon as he sees one. I’ve tried many different types.
He pulls on his lead but only when we near the fields where he can run loose. He actually pulls worse on a harness than a collar. We’ve given up and now only use a collar.

Thanks all. Our trainer hasn’t actually given us any tips on how to get him to walk on a collar just how he should be walked on a collar I.e lead in right hand, dog left side and left hand for treats. He’s a really good dog on the whole. We took him out yesterday to a place and there ended up being a lot of dogs there. Although he was keen to greet at a distance he did sit down. So now it’s just working up to walking past. I’m going to try a harness whilst we work on not pulling as I’m worried he’ll strangle himself.

Your trainer sounds terrible. Please think about finding another one, there is a group on facebook called 'dog training advice and support' and they can find you a reputable, kind, reward based training class in your area.
In the meantime, don't be in a rush to move onto the next stage of walking past dogs. Build up lots of positive experiences, where watching dogs calmly from a distance is rewarded. Then slooowly move closer and repeat, repeat, repeat. If you move too fast and he becomes overexcited then you need to go back to where he can be calm. Remember, he cant learn anything when he's lost the plot through excitement.

Water sprays? What kind of trainer is this? And prong collars?? Dear god I thought they were - rightly - illegal. Jeezo. Get a decent harness - I have a ruff wear web master - not cheap but totally worth it.