What are we doing wrong at night?

[totallyliterally]

I've had less than 4 hours sleep so possibly not in the best grade frame of mind and a bit dramatic

Pup in 10 weeks. Been with us for nearly 2.

Crate in kitchen and has been put to bed in it from night one to sleep with door closed. She also sleeps in it (her choice) during the day (open). One of us sleeps in room next to kitchen and let's her out for wee / poo at night.

First night slept 10-12am out for a wee in garden then 12-5:55am. That has never been repeated.

She settles fine, only had a couple of nights of crying when in the crate at first but settles quickly.

So the issues

Waking in the night
It was only for a wee/poo but last few nights she hasn't always settled after being taken out (no interaction) and put back in. There is whimpering and crying. And I have been taking her out again as sometimes she needs a poo (after a previous wee)

So she now knows if she cries she gets out again. Alternative is to leave her and risk a poo.

Early wake up
At around 4am she is up for the day, and utterly hyper (probably as tired)

I have no idea what to do with her. She wants into another room to chase the cats. Will bark at the doors. If I'm in the room and just ignore her she jumps up etc.

If you put her back in the crate (it is almost impossible to do as so hyper ) she then shout / barks / cries. And whole house and probably neighbours all up nerve tried thisna couple of times but she doesn't settle

I'm fully prepared for sleepless nights and disturbance but she is getting worse and it is clearly something we are doing wrong.

Reading the FB group recommended in here they say crate in our bedroom and then move out. I can't really see that working here as not enough.room for the crate / cats

Do we need to sleep in kitchen?

I could cope with the several wake ups if she then went back to sleep till 6am but that doesn't happen.

On Sunday it was just me at home and she slept most the day as I think she was totally exhausted and I'm pretty sure this is why the crazy hyper thing is happening as she is so tired.

Our dog is 8 now so puppy days were a long time ago, but I think that the first night your pup may just not have drank very much as I'm sure I read that their bladder when little is only good for a couple of hours.

We had our pup in the room next to our bedroom, I did the first shift and dh did the early morning, so we both got a good run of undisturbed sleep. When pup didn't settle I sat next to him on the floor (no crate), with minimal interaction until he settled, and then went back to bed. When dh took over he put pup on the sofa with him after his first pee and they both went back to sleep. Our dog still loves to kip with his head on the crook of dh's knees :)

With the pee followed by the poo a bit later what do you do when you take pup out? Our dog always needs a bit of a walk before he poos, so perhaps take him out for a little longer? Good luck, it is a really exhausting time but it really does pass quickly (much quicker than babies!)

In the early days I was up and down all the time taking him out at night. Initially when he cried or was restless he was taken outside without a word and then back in the crate. To be honest you need to just keep at it as they will get it eventually that if they cry it is a quick toilet break otherwise night time = sleep.

I did read somewhere that some puppies can sleep and not pee initially at night but once they settle in the family and become more relaxed etc they will need more toilet breaks. Mine needed lots right from the start but I can remember one puppy owner from a puppy party saying he was a dream at night but then deteriorated. Therefore it might not be getting worse more that your puppy is just more relaxed and drinking/eating/peeing more normally for their age.

totally For the early waking. We are an early rising family anyway but yes in the early weeks I can remember getting up at stupid o'clock and staying up with DDog. Fortunately I took 1 month at home to settle him in so it wasn't an issue as I just grabbed sleep when I could but I did feel like a walking zombie most of the time.

All in all it doesn't sound like you are doing anything particularly wrong. It's just a bloody nightmare when they are very young until they get a better routine of sleeping and peeing/pooing.

Thank you all for your replies! Really helpful stuff, I think at that losing the plot hour (me and the puppy) knowing it will pass / you're not doing anything wrong is so helpful.

Need to just stick at it.

I can't imagine having her on floor in bedroom. She would eat the whole room bit by bit!

We are doing alternate nights on sofa so just need to get through today. Just got a couple of hours work done. Puppy is having a lovely nap #littlegit

Do you cover the crate? Our spaniel won't settle if we don't cover it up. We've taken a fairly hard line with all our dogs about not getting up during the night. When very young, they'd go out for a last wee about 11pm and someone would get up at 6am to let them out again. Only had about 2 or 3 'accidents' in the first couple of weeks, and after that they've all slept through with no bother. Our next door neighbour is still getting up in the middle of the night to let her (non-crated) dog out when it wakes her barking - most nights. The dog is 4... We throw an old tablecloth over the crate when our youngest dog demands to go to bed at almost exactly 9pm every night, and she sleeps until about 7am.

I remember this stage. I was tearful and almost sick and dizzy with sleep deprivation.
We couldn't have pup in our room. Cats but also she's a giant breed so can't do stairs. I slept in the kitchen with her for the first three weeks (after that she slept most of the night.)
Giant pup would only go to sleep if she could see me to start with. I then gradually retreated. I could also reassure her. Used "sh sh puppy bedtime."
At that age they are tiny babies. It's so hard but doesn't last for long. Thank fuck!

Oh and blackout curtains helped here!!

Thanks again for support.

Last night was a bit better. Bed at 10:30, 12:30 wee 3:30 giant poo and then up at 5am for a wee and we are now up for the day.

If she stopped needing the poo at night then I'd feel more able to leave her I think and if there is a wee accident so be it.

That sounds about right for night waking. Whilst some puppies sleep through mine didn't and eventually I just followed the rule of 1 hour per month of age plus one for nighttime once he got into a routine so for 10 weeks that would mean he could hold it for 2.5 hours (I used to set an alarm and did that until he managed all night. It meant I was up at night but no accidents and also meant I had a clear end in sight as you extend the times as they get older ).

Sorry I meant he could hold for approx 3.5 hours. Too early to do maths

We've never had our puppies separated from us. We also never did the crate training thing.

We put their beds in the hallway outside of our bedrooms (doors open, so they could hear/see us), and had a heater on in winter. This has always worked for us. We would take them out during the night until they were reliably house trained, and then they were fine.

We have a dog door and wouldn't be without one. Once they were housetrained, they were able to take themselves out during the night and did so happily.

Dogs are social creatures. They don't like being separated from others. I would've felt uncomfortable making mine sleep in a separate part of the house, in a crate, away from us when they were so little. Mine now sleep in the living room, but at that age, they were far less sure of themselves, the relationships and their surroundings than they are now.

But early wakings are a normal part of puppyhood. Ours didn't sleep past 5:30am until they were a couple of years old. Now, at 6yo, both of them have to be forced out of their beds of a morning.

Another thought - what time is last feed OP? I can't remember exactly what time we fed ours when very young puppies, but no later than about 7pm as I recall. The last meal was also slightly smaller (we fed 4 times a day at first) so it could all be processed and evacuated before final bedtime. They still had a giant poo first thing in the morning! But they weren't in distress overnight. We also feed raw, so there is less waste in any case, and is digested more quickly. When puppies they got special puppy food that is delivered frozen and has additional nutriments added, so they were still getting everything they need as puppies. Good luck OP! As someone says above, it doesn't last forever. As long as your puppy is happy, you're doing everything right

Hello OP, what breed is your pup? If a larger breed, they tend to have bigger bladders and tend to sleep through the night fairly early on. With ours, we stopped feeding him past 7 pm and did not play with him or excite him before bedtime at 9. For the first 2 weeks we had to let him out at 2 am and then he started sleeping through the night. Good luck!

She is a Sprocker, the poo thing has been an issue and we've been told to feed her later to extend the last poo till morning as she seems to take a while to process.

But that hasn't worked.

So might revert back to 4 smaller meals a day instead of three.

Changed food 2 days ago and she has had her first more solid poo today so hoping that helps itnall too!

Had reliable midnightnish for a wee and 3:30am ish for a poo and wee. Then awake from 4:45am ish.

I think that is a hell of a lot of weeing and pooing for a puppy.

I will put my pups to sleep around 11.00 ish and then get up at 6.00 for wee and poo. I am a lazy bad owner! But if the pups go to bed rlaxed not hungry and tired they will sleep. She needs more sleep than she is getting

I would not go back to 4 meals.

Feed last meal later as she may be waking up hungry.

How often does she poo in the day?

Less now on new food. She always does 2 poos at a time. And today did 4 lots of 2. Some of second ones were tiny.

Fed 3 times. 50g each as per directions.

That's good news! Sounds like the new food suits her better. There's no one-size-fits-all solution with puppies, and their digestive systems are especially fickle. It's all about finding a way that suits the pup - and you - which can involve trying different methods/food etc. I hope your respective sleeps will be improved very soon.

Out for night time toileting on lead, with minimal talk, touch, eye contact; just a click/ treat if and when she performs and straight back in.

We are doing that, pick her up and put her outside. Lift and back in crate.

But problem is 4am it's light. She seems the cats and goes hyper and that's it game over.

We stayed at family last night and she was great over night out 12 / 3am for wee/poo back in crate then 4am out and wide awake. DH was with her in living room (she was in crate covered) I can down at 5am and she was. Full puppy zoomies. Three herself at my feet and just biting and hurling herself around. I got her harness and put it on and instantly she stopped and fell asleep on my lap

The hyper is clearly tiredness.

Think going to just have to pick a day and the 4am and put her back in her crate and wait for her to settle (and warn the neighbours)

As actually the night wakings are to be expected but the 4am starts are not.

I'm another one who took the hard line as not enough room for crate in room or landing really. Last feed is at 5. Bed at 10, leave in crate till six. Ignored the crying which nearly broke me but as long as I knew shed done toilet stuff I was not getting up to her. She is a bit of a drama queen any way. We have had a couple of little wee accidents in the crate, and one poo. She hasn't had any accidents for four weeks, but she is 18 weeks now.