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The doghouse

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Original poster

Dogmatic headcollar

24 replies

Greyhorses · 19/03/2016 19:03

Does anyone know how good these are in terms of control and stopping pulling?

Do they close the mouth when the dog is pulling or are they fixed?

Obviously it can't be used as a muzzle but would it be safe on a dog prone to lunging?

Ive been looking at them for a while but have been put off by the awful pattern on them

OP posts:

mrslaughan · 19/03/2016 19:10

You can have them plain - well they are level.
We have a giant breed and I prefer it to a straight halti, it is fixed , so doesn't close around the mouth. I think it gives you good control .

mrslaughan · 19/03/2016 19:11

The plain ones are leather!

cheerfulmary · 19/03/2016 19:44

It does close the mouth

paragraph down the page explains it

i would not use it to walk a dog to stop the dog pulling as it will constantly be closing the dogs mouth,preventing panting etc

cheerfulmary · 19/03/2016 19:45

The leather ones and new pattern ones will close the mouth and tend not to loosen when the lead is relaxed as the material gets softer they are better but it takes ages for this to happen.

Original poster

Greyhorses · 19/03/2016 19:47

Thanks! I currently use a gentle leader but I find its riding into her eyes when she lunges at other dogs, however she sometimes wears a muzzle which makes things difficult as I can't use both so I'm wondering if the dogmatic will give enough control to go muzzle free

She did chew the last one we got when DP helpfully left it lying around so I am a bit wary of spending £35 but if it works it may be worth it!

OP posts:

mrslaughan · 19/03/2016 19:50

I use one all the time , and it doesn't in regular walking shut our dogs mouth , he can pant and drink and everything in it..... The only way I can imagine it doing that would be by kind of twisting and lifting it...... I know they say it does it on the website, but it would have to be a very specific manoeuvre...... But I will research further

cheerfulmary · 19/03/2016 19:51

I would use it on a reactive dog along with a harness with a double ended lead. So normal walking use the lead attached to harness and then those dodgy reactive dog moments use the headcollar to move the head.

tabulahrasa · 19/03/2016 19:54

You can fit a gentle leader under a muzzle - well I have done anyway, though I've swapped to a kumfi dogalter as it found it fitted better with respect to going in his eyes.

I don't see why a dogmatic would give more control than any similarly designed headcollar tbh?

hairypaws · 19/03/2016 19:54

I bought one after trying the halti, which was no good. It wasn't a great fit to be honest.

What I have ended up with is the Ancol happy at heel harness which is fantastic. Gave me great control with my lunging dog. It's a harness but lead attaches at side so dogs front legs are pulled in to you when they pull. Difficult to explain but explained on line. I got it reduced on Amazon.

RoseDog · 19/03/2016 19:55

gencon-allin1.co.uk/

I use one of these, recommended by my dog trainer, for my strong, pulling, lunging, dog aggressive stuff.

cheerfulmary · 19/03/2016 19:57

No just putting pressure on the lead or having a tight lead will shut the dogs mouth.

The loop under the dogs mouth which has the ring attached to it will pull the top of the harness and shut the dogs mouth. Hard to see when next to the dog but very clear if in front of the dog. If you listen carefully you usually hear the dogs breathing change to accommodate the closed mouth

Original poster

Greyhorses · 19/03/2016 20:03

Thanks everyone.

Sorry I have used the gentle leader with the muzzle and threaded it through the bottom but i find it rides into her eyes and causes more hysteria as she can't see?

The trainer has said she must have no pain from any equipment as she is fear aggressive and it can trigger worse reactions so I was looking for something that will not hurt her or ride into her eyes but gives more control than say a standard harness or collar, I need to have the head under complete control as she will nip someone if given half the chance

OP posts:

cheerfulmary · 19/03/2016 20:10

We all have different ideas but I would not use a gencon on a reactive dog as it is a glorified slip lead so as it tightens is tightens around the neck. This drop in oxygen can make a reactive dog panic more

mrslaughan · 19/03/2016 20:13

I wonder if because mines leather it's not as flexible so doesn't close - I will look closely next time I use it.
I know my sister found it didn't fit her Labrador very well.

Original poster

Greyhorses · 19/03/2016 20:18

I must admit I hate the dog pattern on the nylon one and much prefer the leather but I'm not sure if I can justify the cost. I don't want her to look cute and fluffy

She has a strange small but long face too so might be hard to fit!

OP posts:

tabulahrasa · 19/03/2016 20:21

I found the gentle leader went in his eyes and tightened round his mouth, but the kumfi doesn't...I don't know how much of that is down to face shape though.

I looked at a dogmatic, but I didn't think it'd fit under a muzzle and he redirects to me, so however well I have his head, it'd not be fun for me, also I can't really control other dogs so if they come and bug him...

I do use it with a harness as well though, with a front ring so I have his front end completely.

RufusDufus94 · 08/02/2019 15:38

Contrary to the oort by cheerfulmary above it does not close the mouth, neither does it allow the dog to pull in any way. Because the running loop is below the chin, and dogs drive with their shoulders, you simply have to maintain a grip on the lead (you don’t need to pull), and if the dog lurches their body moves towards the target but their head stays fixed and twists back towards you. After a very short while they realise that is uncomfortable and don’t bother lurching.
You can simply tap the lead to remind them of which way they should be looking and they follow. This worked on a 50kg Rhodesian Ridgeback effortlessly . . . .

BiggFactHunt · 09/02/2019 08:08

One of my dogs is very strong, grown men have held him on the lead and commented on his strength when he has lunged unexpectedly.
When he is wearing his Dogmatic, my 7yr old can walk him easily.
He can’t pull at all but he can still also pant, drink and it doesn’t ride up.

RussellTheLoveMuscle · 09/02/2019 12:45

I use a dogmatic with my reactive GSD, she can eat, drink, pant and carry her ball with it on. I always thought it was a fixed head collar which is why I use it. Anything tightening around her face is a complete no-no for me. I can still guide her away from approaching dogs, suicidal cats etc with complete control using that and double ended lead attatched to her collar.

HuskyOwner · 08/07/2019 12:14

Awful product. I bought their recommended size for my husky. I didn’t realise but it was causing him an injury under his chin where it was rubbing. I only noticed after 3 weeks so they wouldn’t replace for the correct size because I was “beyond the 2 weeks for replacement”. Wouldn’t accept that their sizings are wrong because they are “only a guide”. CUSTOMER SERVICE WAS A DISGRACE! They were obnoxious to deal with. They weren’t interested in the harm that their product caused my dog.

Fucksandflowers · 08/07/2019 13:42

I think head collars are very cruel and aversive personally.
I cannot understand how they are promoted as a positive tool.

Even with lengthy training lots of dogs hate them which I think is very telling.

If the dog is aggressive and lunges I think a muzzle is a kinder option.

And I think the trainer is right, if they get really amped up and agitated, they don't really feel the pain.

OverFedStanley · 08/07/2019 14:06

Fucksandflowers unfortunately in some situations a head collar is the only way some dogs and people can walk together. I agree in an ideal world there would be no need for headcollars but.....

I have a 76 year old lady who has a GSD for example. There is no way on earth with all the time,money and training that the lady has control over the dog on a harness. She has already been pulled over several times. We have cc the dog to a bridle headcollar - just like the ones for horses and the dog and the lady are happy. The dog wears a harness and a double lead and if needed the owner can use the head collar. They are now able to exercise. No risk to the owner or the dog.

It is easy to make sweeping statements but sometimes situations are outside of the norm.

I agree the figure of 8 collars, gencon, halti etc can cause pain to the dog. I personally hate the dogmatic as it DOES close the dogs mouth and you can hear a change in the dogs breathing when wearing one. It is easy to make sweeping statements but sometimes situations are outside of the norm.

tabulahrasa · 08/07/2019 14:12

“If the dog is aggressive and lunges I think a muzzle is a kinder option.”

They don’t do the same thing though, a muzzle will stop a bite, they don’t help you control the dog...

Though yes, they can be aversive to many dogs as they don’t tend to like things on their face - which is why you have to muzzle train if you use a muzzle.

This is a zombie thread though, so I’d kind of assume the OP made a decision a while ago.

HuskyOwner · 08/07/2019 15:49

May be a necropost but if you google “dogmatic review” this thread comes up so regardless of what the OP decided it is worth sharing opinions so that future purchasers are informed.

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