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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

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Original poster

Desperate, please help

30 replies

SinclairSpectrum · 10/12/2014 16:58

Puppy is great, 9 weeks old, had him a week.
I put him in crate daily while I do school run, 30 mins tops, only to come back EVERY DAY to find he has had diarrhoea type poo all over crate, himself, surrounding floor through bars etc.
Admit to crying whilst scrubbing every little wire tonight.
What should I do??

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VivaLeBeaver · 10/12/2014 17:02

My dog did this. I think he hated the crate so I stopped using it. The crate stressed him out. Have you tried actually crate training him to get him used to the crate? Feeding him in there, etc? So he gets to like it.

tabulahrasa · 10/12/2014 17:02

Have you trained him to be happy in the crate and for you to leave? Because it's a pretty common stress reaction.

FurryDogMother · 10/12/2014 17:05

Are you taking him out for a poo before you crate him? What and when is he eating? If he eats before you go out, probably a good idea to change his routine so that he doesn't eat until you come back, and then straight outside with him until...erm...shit happens :) Have you had him checked out by your vet? Could you cover the inside of his crate with newspaper to make the clean-up easier?

Sounds as though he may be getting anxious whilst you're away - does he have anything in his crate to comfort him? Has he had a change of food since you got him?

If he's OK healthwise, am sure this will pass (no pun intended). Sure someone with more useful advice will be along soon!

Original poster

SinclairSpectrum · 10/12/2014 17:07

Have been trying to feed him in there from day one, tried clicker training the howling when putting him in at night but gave up after night 4 when he seemed to be getting more distressed.
Viva, where does your dog go when left?
He is a really 'people' dog but there are times when I need to go out without him.
Worry that if I ditch the crate he will cause same mess just on a larger scale.
Don't want him to be stressed, and certainly don't want to come home to that mess daily.

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Original poster

SinclairSpectrum · 10/12/2014 17:19

Vet checked last Thurs, all well. Toileting before I go out, leave tv on, stopped putting teddy he brought from breeder in crate as he shat on it!
He is on Wainwrights and seems to be doing ok on it - poos normal rest of time so points to a real sign of distress when in crate.
Would happily get rid of the bloody thing - crate, not dog!!, if he would be relaxed on his own without it. Wont he just crap all over the sofa??

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VivaLeBeaver · 10/12/2014 17:33

I just let my dog have the run of the kitchen/diner. He had the odd accident but not the stress shit spraying like in the crate.

Original poster

SinclairSpectrum · 10/12/2014 17:41

Right, will try to leave him out the crate and go for walk round block and see how it goes!

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AlphaBravoHenryFoxtons · 10/12/2014 19:39

is the grate covered with blankets?

AlphaBravoHenryFoxtons · 10/12/2014 19:42

Is he more likely to be stressed about being separated from his new family rather than stressed at being in the crate?

basildonbond · 10/12/2014 19:42

Can you puppy proof your kitchen? Remove anything chewable he can reach and only leave stuff in there that you don't mind getting trashed if the worst happens ...

crapcrapcrapcrap · 10/12/2014 19:50

He sounds scared. Can you video him while you are out?

I think he is being left too long - remember he was with his mum until very recently. You need to train him to know that the crate is safe.

I like the following site's crate-training advice - scroll down to "the crate training process" where it talks you through the process in little steps.

www.humanesociety.org/animals/dogs/tips/crate_training.html

Original poster

SinclairSpectrum · 10/12/2014 19:53

Kitchen is an all in one open plan diner affair. May well be stress at being left, have taken him to school with me in back of the car and he has been happy to wait while I took kids to yard etc but if I leave the room in the house he always follows.
How do i help him feel more confident on his own?

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Original poster

SinclairSpectrum · 10/12/2014 19:59

Crap - 30 mins is too long?
He isn't in it any other time, although he does get fed in crate its always with door open.
I don't know how else to make it his happy place, have covered it, it has a soft base, a warm pad, his food and water etc.
He just hates it.
I had researched the theory loads before getting pup and agree with the above link. He is never punished, only reinforced for good behaviour etc.

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basildonbond · 10/12/2014 20:03

If he's getting that anxious then 3 minutes would be too long - you need to build it up really slowly and gently

Unfortunately now he associates the crate with you going and him getting distressed you're going to have to work quite a bit harder if you want him to get used to it

Personally I would stick with the crate but start again from scratch - it's very useful having a dog who is happily crate trained as it makes experiences like a stay at the vets that much less stressful

crapcrapcrapcrap · 10/12/2014 20:06

30 minutes is clearly too long. How would a child feel about being alone for 30 minutes? Puppies are social creatures and it is unnatural for them to be alone. They resist it until we teach them they don't need to.

Separation anxiety is normal at this age but can be an enormous and awful problem if it extends to adulthood. I have an 8 month old with SA and she is hugely limiting despite 2 months of pretty intensive work on my part. I can't emphasise enough the importance of going slowly.

My advice would be to avoid leaving him in the crate for anywhere near that length of time for now - take him in the car instead. Work on very slowly teaching him that the crate is the place for relaxation - pop him in there when he's super-sleepy and sit by the crate for a few minutes ignoring him. Slowly work up to leaving the room momentarily then popping out the front door then going as far as the gate then waiting outside for 2 minutes then 3 then 5 etc etc. But you must go slowly. Videoing him while you are out will give you some idea of how long he can manage before becoming distressed.

frownyface · 10/12/2014 20:09

It takes quite some time to adjust to a crate, If you have only had him a week its quite possible its too much too soon.

Check out youtube- Kikopup crate training. It helps to associate positive things with the crate.

In the meantime, you need to build up from a few minutes to longer and longer very gradually. I do mean five mins mn ing outside the front door and gradually building up.

You are doing the right stuff feeding pup in the crate and leaving door open so keep up with that.

Have you got a kong? They are great for keeping the pups mind busy.

Hopefully given some time the pup will settle but it sounds like too much too soon as things stand.

Original poster

SinclairSpectrum · 10/12/2014 20:11

Ok, but how do I get him to like it when he hasn't from day 1?
I am around the vast majority of the time but at some stage he is going to have to be left on his own for short periods, how do I make this as stress free as possible for him?

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Original poster

SinclairSpectrum · 10/12/2014 20:16

Cross posted.
Understand, will go much slower.
Was following advice previously posted on here regarding 30 mins however it clearly doesn't suit my laddy.

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basildonbond · 10/12/2014 20:19

By not rushing it!! I can happily leave ddog for up to four hours at a time and he is perfectly chilled and happy but we had to build up to that very gradually

Start off by rewarding any interaction at all with the crate - eg he looks at it, click and treat, if he sniffs at it, ditto - huge jackpot treat if he actually goes in there of his own accord

It won't happen overnight but if you try little and often every day you will get there in the end

Sorry if anyone else has suggested this but have a look at kikopup's happy alone videos on YouTube

crapcrapcrapcrap · 10/12/2014 20:29

Keep us posted - because he has already had bad experiences in the crate (that sounds unkind but I hope you understand - he's clearly been distressed in there) you will need to go waaaaaaay back to square one. Door open, puppy in crate with Kong, you sitting MNing next to it, two or three times a day.

I would get rid of the food bowl and feed all food in the crate in a Kong.

frownyface · 10/12/2014 20:38

Kikopups a great resource.

Have a watch :)

Positive training and some really good ideas, what she advises makes a lot of sense and is very kind.

Go slow op.

Keep us posted :)

Original poster

SinclairSpectrum · 11/12/2014 10:01

Thank you all - really want to get this right so am ignoring crate for know although its open and cosy looking.
Spending time just mooching about house until pup stops following. He is lying in next room and I have pulled door closed but not shut. Going to try and build his confidence re being on his own before moving on to slowly introducing crate.
Know I bolloxed this up by moving too fast, feel awful about it so thanks for not flaming the rookie.

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frownyface · 11/12/2014 15:25

Hi Sinclair.

No need for flaming, you knew your pup was distressed and asked for help :)

That sounds good, its such hard going when they are small and some days you will feel like you are winning and others you take a couple of steps backwards-all normal stuff.

Have you had a look at the vids on youtube? I did the crate training via kikopup and it went pretty smoothly-clicking and rewarding for going into the crate and slowly building up.

I got my clickers via amazon-cheap and cheerful-I went for the ones that attach on a band around the wrist and always try to have treats on me for good behaviour.

So long as you reinforce the good and ignore the bad (easier said than done I know) and remain consistent then you will end up with a happy confident well trained dog (hopefully!).

Lots of ppl on here happy to advise, make good use of us :)

constantlyconfused · 11/12/2014 19:43

My pup hated the crate from day one. I leave her with run of downstairs and no issues at all .I brought enough chew toys to sink a ship so usually shes still content chewing kong and doesn't seem phased being left .Where as when she was confined even 30 seconds would leave her a nervous wreck .

Original poster

SinclairSpectrum · 12/12/2014 11:00

Update - have taken all advice on board, pup currently curled up asleep in open crate!
He can do 6 minutes with door shut without being upset - not waiting for him to get distressed, mean I have only waited 6 mins before opening door having built up from under a minute. Can't believe how quickly this has turned around, feel like we can really do this without any further upset.
Little bit addicted to Kikopup!

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