Meet Poppy

[Fifyfomum]

Poppy is six months old, she is a Spaniel crossed with a Husky and has had two previous owners, the first kept her in the kitchen all the time, barely walked her and as far as I can tell gave her away when she wasn't 'puppy like' enough for them.

The second owners already had a dog and 5 children in a 2 bedroom house and when I arrived it was clear she had not been walked and was in a dirty, tiny kitchen. I found out about her through face book and immediately went to get her.

We pretty much fell in love straight away, I walked her as soon as I got home and we've been out once more today, I am just about to take her for another hours walk before settling down for the night.

She hasn't eaten much today, I put some bisto gravy in her biscuits but that didnt seem to entice her and she also hasn't passed urine or had a bowel movement since I collected her.

She is quite pulley on the lead and doesn't seem to have been trained at all, still she is very clever and has come a long way even since this morning, she is jumping up at us less and less and she is wonderful with the children.

I suppose I would love any advice on how to get her off the lead, because we live near lots of fields and I want her to be able to run and jump and do all those things that dogs do, I also want to throw balls for her and so on.

I got the best dog food that I could and a chew toy and a ball and rope thing but she hasn't really been played with so shes not really interested in any of it.

We are used to dogs, I grew up with dogs and helped my dad train our boxer and she was amazing, really calm and happy and friendly. I am sure that my husband and I can train Poppy very well. Any support or advice is greatly received.

thank you

Fify no one is suggesting that as a long term option You are just describing routines that sound very familiar to all of us -normal dog owning routines.

But you have just brought home a rescue. It is anything but normal for her right now. You sound like it is very much about you wanting to launch straight into how you want things to be for her which is great...in a few days time when feels more secure. You will hopefully have her for 15 years so surely 7 - 14 days of buliding things up day on day is a worthwhile investment? Thing of it as a marathon not a sprint.

You are being very defensive, people are only trying to help, not attacking you personally. No ones means lock the dog in a cage, just let the dog be quietly rather than lots of activity. There's lots of time for that in the coming weeks.

We did the same when we brought our 8 week old pup home, the first two days we just sat quietly on the floor letting him take the lead to get his confidence up in a new environment with strangers.

Unfortunately, with young children like ours the only options are to allow her to be in our space with us or to put her in her crate in the kitchen. When we eat she is in her crate and she whines like nobodies business, she very much likes being in with us.

I know you all think I shouldn't be walking her or training her but she really, really enjoys it... Plus it gives me and her time just together which is really nice and important I think.

your day sounds exhausting.
the dog doesn't need to go in the car with you all the time she needs time to learn to relax on her own.the odd hour in the crate will help.she is still only a baby - let her sleep. :)

the trouble with too much fuss and activity is that they get to expect it.then before you know it you have a crazy excitable bored dog.

good luck with everything.

Well in the week she will have more time in the crate, so she will definitely be used to it... I thought it better to have her out and walking than being inside with the kids. To be honest it sounds awful having her and the kids in all day, much better to let them roam around and play.

She is chilling out now and won't be disturbed for a couple of hours until her evening walk. Though by the sounds of it I shouldn't be walking her twice in one day?

The reason I took her into town is because she is so much happier when she is with me, I have to leave her for a few hours on Monday with the kids and Husband so I have been trying to keep her with me until then, bonding time.

I know your dog enjoys training and so does mine but our trainer said no more than 5 minutes once or twice a day, every day. Don't go overboard. Even in an hours training session, we train 5 minutes on, 5 minutes play. Dogs can get overstimulated and confused, or bored if you are doing the same thing over and over. Remover too that training should
Ideally be incorporated into your daily routine ie sitting before crossing the road, using a wait command when you open the front door, leave it when you drop something etc.

That sounds sensible Butterfly thank you.

She really has absolutely No clue and No training so it is impossible to get her to 'wait' while opening a door she just bloody legs it! She is learning to heel though and wait in other situations.

I think its actually more confusing for her, not understanding things IYSWIM, she doesn't really understand why she can't just bugger off. So much easier training a younger dog!

Will definitely keep with the loose lead training for now and I have also been getting her to sit while I put the lead on but that is really hard too.

I'll take her out for a half hour walk in about 20mins (rather than an hour) and take her for a longer walk in the morning. After that the kids will be in bed and she can have some quiet time with us before going out for a quick wee and settling down for the night.

I suppose we are training her quite a lot at the moment in that we wont ignore bad behaviour. But it is important that she knows what is and is not acceptable.

Ignore the bad behaviour and reward the good. Have you considered clicker training? It's really effective and so easy, the click is capturing the behaviour that you want. Dogs are amoral, they have no sense of what is right and wrong, but will do what works, so if she gets a treat for a sit and a wait, then she will offer those behaviours again.

How long are you going out for on Monday?

Usually I will be at home the whole day on a Monday, Husband will be at home tomorrow, I am out until about 13.30 for a training course. I will get up and walk her at around 6am and then go to my course. He will have the children though so she will probably need to be in her crate for a bit of the day. Usually I will be out between 9 and 4 on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays and she will have someone with her full-time Fridays, Saturdays, Sundays and Mondays. I was considering getting her a walker for in the day while I am out over those three days.

I will look into clicker training, I've never really understood it but I've seen people using them...

We just went out for a walk and she was an absolute dream on the lead, really gentle with me and it was really quite pleasant. Probably about a 45 minute walk down a track near my house that I've not down before, was lovely amazing the new places you find when you have a dog!

I am finding her very easy to train, there is just a LOT to train IFSWIM, so its going to be a long old journey for sure.

Thanks again

I can't ignore bad behaviour, I can't have her jumping all over the couch, jumping up at the family, jumping up at the kids, bounding all over the house. She is not the only animal in this house and we will not treat her as such. I don't understand this 'ignore bad behaviour' stuff, so you just let your animals bark at your kids, destroy your stuff and walk all over you? I don't think so.

We DO reward good behaviour but if she does something we don't like, we tell her and if she carries on she is put into the kitchen.

Okay, think of it like this. When she jumps on the sofa, why not lure her off with a treat so she's on the floor? Or scatter some treats on the floor. She then considers better stuff happening on the floor than on the sofa. Praise her.

Bounding all over the house, confine her to one or two rooms. Our 17 week old cocker pretty much stays in the kitchen, which is a pain for me tbh, but it's not for long, he's already getting a bit more freedom and he's well mannered, house trained and well behaved.

She has no concept of walking all over you, dogs are not on a secret mission to achieve world domination, they just do stuff that gets stuff they consider rewarding, toys, interaction, food, cuddles.

Jumping up - scatter treats on the floor, reward when all four paws are on the floor. Only treat for sitting etc.

Again, Kikopup has some fab stuff on Youtube about all these things.

Clicker training is easy, you are just marking behaviours that you want or like with a click and treat, then introducing a marker word or gesture.

It's up to you really though how you decide to proceed with this, these are only my own thoughts. Good luck.

Finding this thread making me really really and for your poor poor puppy.
Why why why would you punish her for not behaving in the way you want her to??? How's she supposed to know what's ok and what's not!

By ignoring the behaviours you don't want and rewarding the behaviours you do want she will learn how she's to behave in the house without further damaging her relationship with you. I'm sorry but if your not prepared to do this for your dog then you shouldn't keep her!

I'm sorry to be harsh but your coming across as someone who likes the idea of a dog but isn't prepared to put in the work particularly one who has had a traumatic start .

There is no need to feel bad for my 'poor poor puppy'

she has gone from living in an infested shit hole with no attention, love or contact other than being berated for stuff she doesnt understand, to being walked, loved, fed and is currently lying on a rug in front of an open fire clearly in absolute heaven.

So my 'poor poor puppy' has done pretty bloody well out of the last two days, given that she could have been given to Anyone yesterday, they didnt give a toss who she went to, they didn't vet anyone or check anyone they just wanted rid, immediately.

As for covering the floor in treats, isn't really suitable for a house with a toddler unfortunately and sorry but the dog jumping us and us saying 'No poppy get down' and making a hand signal showing 'down' and then waiting for her to calm herself and giving her lots of attention and love is NOT cruelty, it might not be how others do it but it is NOT cruel and it is working in this house.

We have had to put her in the kitchen maybe 5 times today, for maybe 3 minutes at a time because she has been too boundy and too much, I am NOT going to lock her in the kitchen all the time away from me, she has already had that awful treatment from someone else and she will be part of this family (again how anyone can think that it is crueler for us to only remove her from the area when she is behaving badly is beyond me)

Anyway, as for 'not being prepared to put the work in' how DARE you? I went from having nothing to do with a dog, not knowing anything about getting a dog yesterday, to racing 40mins drive away to pick up a dog because I could see what a shithole it was in. I have walked her, trained her, fed her, disciplined her and welcomed her into my family. I most certainly have 'put the work in' and I will continue to do whatever it takes to help her realise what she needs to do in order to be a happy, calm family dog. It is working, she is much better already, much happier already.

But of course here on MN it has to be something, if it wasn't 'you are walking your dog too much and not ignoring her enough' it would be the opposite.

I have been told that dogs like this do well on between 2 and 5 hours exercise a day, very different to what I have been told here.

I will listen to advice but I do not have to do everything the same way as everyone else and not doing that does not make me evil or mean I have a 'poor poor puppy'!

I actually meant stay in the kitchen with the puppy lol, I wouldn't dream of leaving our puppy on his own in the kitchen for the day, which is why I said that it was a pain for me as I am in the kitchen a lot a the moment. But it allows him to have effective boundaries, without using aversive methods, while being trained. And him not getting hold of stuff that I would rather he didn't.

But I am now leaving this thread.

Don't scatter treats then, use a toy, I think you know what I actually meant.

Good luck again.

Unfortunately I have young children, I can't ignore them in order to sit in a kitchen with the puppy for 15 hours a day.

I really cannot see why it is 'harmful' to a dog to say 'no don't do that' so its not something I am going to stop doing. She does have treats throughout the day (not loads though because that would be bad for her) so it isn't like she is without stuff to chew on or do.

Still, I think the big difference here is that some don't feel it is appropriate to say 'No no get down puppy' to a dog and I do. Which is fine I appreciate your input needa though I am happy to continue doing things my way as I think it fits in better with my family and it is working, the dog is learning and is happy, win-win. I did think you meant 'scatter treats' because that is what you said, I read what you said, rather than something else?

However I don't appreciate being told that my dog is being cruelly treated, she most certainly is NOT being cruelly treated and being told 'no no puppy don't jump up' is not damaging her.

We do what comes naturally to us of course.

She also has toys on the floor! I am sure I have already said this.

As I said unfortunately I am not in a position to martyr myself to a dog, I have enough people expecting me to martyr myself to my children for goodness sake! Saying 'no' to a dog doesn't do anything except teach them that some things are not acceptable.

Totally agree with Needastrongone the guaranteed way to train a dog. - the dog will learn quicker and you will more time to spend with your DC's

Prevention of inappropriate behaviour by distraction and rewarding the good - if you do want to prevent behaviour use a positive interrupter

You will then have a confident, happy trusting dog.

Punish inappropriate behaviour you will have an nervous, unsure and worried dog.

I think punishing a dog would be saying 'No you evil shit' and beating it. Saying 'no get down doggy' in a calm but low voice and then giving her lots of love when she is on the floor is NOT going to create a nervous and worried dog.

There are extremes to everything. I think some people are bloody awful to dogs but I am not one of them. I am unsure why I am being so attacked on this thread and my 'poor poor puppy' is being labelled as somehow in danger or something for being with me.

Perhaps I should pop her off to the dogs trust hey, where she can be in kennels for however long meaning she never trusts again. Or given away to someone who wont care for her?

I am doing my best FFS!

Lots of different schools of thought here. Our trainer in the us tells us not to reward a dog for getting off the sofa as it potentially encourages them to get up in the first place. We use a strong "no" when ours used to jump up, followed by a 10 second training session ie "sit" then "down" so they get the reward for that rather than bad followed by corrected behavior. Ours is 8 months now and we have no jumping on our sofa .... She does love a snuggle on a huge ottoman in front of the fire with dh though.

You have started this thread asking for advice. You have been given lots of advice that will help your puppy become a confident well mannered dog. But you don't seem to want to listen. As you just stated your new to dog ownership. Why come on a forum asking for advice and then completely ignore the advice given and argue with experienced dog owners?

If you don't have the time to train your dog in a positive manner then I stand by what I said before you should rehome her. The poor thing has had enough trauma in her short life without being told off!

By telling off a dog not only do you do considerable damage to your relationship with your dog but also your giving attention to the behaviour which reinforces the behaviour . Same principal with children too. The more attention you give to a behaviour either positive or negative the greater the likelihood the behaviour will be repeated.

butterflies that is basically what we do. We get her off the sofa, get her to stay on the floor for a bit, sit and get stroked/played with etc. the idea being that she will realise that she can come up to us for attention with out having to jump on the sofa. Which is cool and it seems to be working.

I am not of the school of thought that saying 'no' firmly to a dog is going to damage them. I am very pleased to see that I am not the only one!

thinking I have not 'completely ignored' anything. I have read and taken on board most of the advice offered if it makes sense to MY family. What works for one does not work for others. What I REFUSE to listen to and actually boils my piss is being told that I have in some way made the fate of my beautiful doggy who I have completely fallen in love with, worse.

I have not made her fate worse, we LOVE each other, we walk together, she doesn't even pull me anymore because she knows that I don't like it. We play together and cuddle each other on the floor and have an absolutely great time.

My only regret is that I didnt know her for the first six months because I have absolutely no doubt in my heart that this is MY doggy and I will love her and look after her no matter what. She just needs firm, clear and consistent training IMHO and if people disagree with that fine, saying it is 'cruelty' or not 'the only way to train a dog' is bullshit though.

Anyway thinking I really don't want to converse with you, your 'poor poor puppy' remark has really fucking upset me and you've had absolutely nothing positive to add.

So cheers for that

I'm sorry you feel that way. I along with others have simply tried to point out to you that there are other and IMHO better ways of training your puppy than lots of negative reinforcement.

That is your opinion. My opinion is that saying 'No' to a dog will not harm it.

That does not mean I have a 'poor poor puppy' who would be better off without me nor that I am 'the sort of person who likes the idea of a dog but can't be bothered to put the effort it' which is absolute bullshit and really a very nasty thing to say to someone who has gone out of their way to help an animal in need.

Advice is given but doesn't need to be taken. I don't have to take anyone's advice but to say I have taken no-ones is absolute rubbish because I most certainly have.

A bit of support was needed too, somewhere to share my journey with Poppy. Not to be told I was a twat who shouldn't have a dog. Thats just ridiculous and looking at Poppy (who is dreaming about running by the looks of things :) ) she agrees with me.