Meet Poppy

[Fifyfomum]

Poppy is six months old, she is a Spaniel crossed with a Husky and has had two previous owners, the first kept her in the kitchen all the time, barely walked her and as far as I can tell gave her away when she wasn't 'puppy like' enough for them.

The second owners already had a dog and 5 children in a 2 bedroom house and when I arrived it was clear she had not been walked and was in a dirty, tiny kitchen. I found out about her through face book and immediately went to get her.

We pretty much fell in love straight away, I walked her as soon as I got home and we've been out once more today, I am just about to take her for another hours walk before settling down for the night.

She hasn't eaten much today, I put some bisto gravy in her biscuits but that didnt seem to entice her and she also hasn't passed urine or had a bowel movement since I collected her.

She is quite pulley on the lead and doesn't seem to have been trained at all, still she is very clever and has come a long way even since this morning, she is jumping up at us less and less and she is wonderful with the children.

I suppose I would love any advice on how to get her off the lead, because we live near lots of fields and I want her to be able to run and jump and do all those things that dogs do, I also want to throw balls for her and so on.

I got the best dog food that I could and a chew toy and a ball and rope thing but she hasn't really been played with so shes not really interested in any of it.

We are used to dogs, I grew up with dogs and helped my dad train our boxer and she was amazing, really calm and happy and friendly. I am sure that my husband and I can train Poppy very well. Any support or advice is greatly received.

thank you

[Fifyfomum]

Ah okay... I will have to show that to Husband because he is pretty keen on the 'pack' theory.

I will have a flick through, I copied and pasted my blurb from here on the facebook page but it's not been authorised yet. I will post about the snapping on the same thread as soon as it is.

She is now licking her peanut butter chew toy as if her life depended on it :) Has been very lovely... I feel blessed!

[fanoftheinvisibleman]

Couldn't agree more with needa.

Kikopup is a great place to start and has youtube tutorial videos on the things you are after like not jumping up, loose lead walking and capturing calm.behaviour. She is a genius, and all without any negativity. If she learns quickly she'd be the perfect candidate for kikopups clicker/reward based training. It'll be well worth your time.

Plus once she is settled, she had you tube videos on some great fun stuff the kids can get involved in too.

[basildonbond]

What I meant was that your expectations are too high for any puppy in the first 48 hours of having them, let alone one with her poor start, not that they're too high longterm

It all sounds v busy and full-on ... Maybe step back a little, leave her be a little and let her get used to the huge change in her life

Our trainer suggested having a 'puppy moon' when we first brought our pup home, keeping everything v quiet and low key and only gradually introducing new experiences and new people

[Fifyfomum]

I am confused, do you expect me not to walk her? Or to make the children sleep in the shed?

She has to be walked, she has to be in the lounge around the children.

I am introducing her to no other 'new' experiences. Except perhaps the boot of the car!

So what can I do to make her life more calm? We have a very calm household there is no issue there, but I can't remove the children and I think she's spent enough time just stuck in her crate!

[basildonbond]

Don't be ridiculous .. I'm suggesting you ignore her for a bit ...

She's had a huge life change - several by the sounds of it - and she needs time to adjust

She doesn't need lots of stimulating walks just yet and she doesn't need children playing with her. She doesn't need to be stuck in her crate but a bit of quiet time somewhere she feels safe with maybe just one adult to start with would help her

It sounds like you're trying lots of training with her - just keep it simple for now - focus on one or two areas and stick to those so you don't overload her

[Fifyfomum]

I really think she's been ignored enough, the dog is glued to me, gets really upset when I am not with her, followed me into the bathroom earlier while I had a bath etc.

Spaniels are really clever animals and 'ignoring' them does the very opposite of calming them down. She's had a long walk today (around 1.5hrs) with lead training and then some lead training in the garden (intensive, maybe half an hour) today. She has been out in the car while I went to drop the king sized duvet off at the launderette which thankfully they are washing today! She is now sat in the lounge, sleeping with the children playing happily away from her. Perfect :)

We didnt spend lots of time yesterday training her, we simply made it clear what is expected of her in our own home and how she was to behave (not bounding around, not scaring or barking/growling at the children) and its working really, really well. We all spent some time in the garden earlier having a clean up and a play and she really, really enjoyed herself.

I really think that ignoring her would just lead to more frustrated, bordering on aggressive behaviour. She is a spaniel X, they need lots and lots of mental stimulation, not 'to be ignored'

[needastrongone]

Really? That's interesting. I have two spaniels, a Springer and a Cocker. Your assertion that ignoring spaniels does the very opposite of calming them down is very interesting, as it doesn't hold true here. Where did you get this information.

Spaniels, just like all dogs, need mental stimulation, that's true. And it's good that you are prepared to put the time in. We put a lot of time into our dogs, but they have to learn to be calm too, and can also end up overstimulated and expectant of entertainment.

Have a look at Kikopup capturing calm and read about clicker training.

The pack theory in long outdated, and sadly, the methods used to keep the dog in it's place in the 'pack' can be aversive at best. So, it might be best to ensure your husband realises that the pack theory stuff has been debunked, as it certainly wouldn't work with an already stressed dog.

I still agree with the others, you need to give this dog time to settle in, find her feet. I am not sure that you are in a place to listen though?

[Fifyfomum]

my intentions with the dog are to allow her to build up a bond with me which she obviously desperately needs.

I can't see how ignoring her would be in anyway beneficial. She has been stuck in that crate for months on end with very little else going on. To bring her here, only to stick her back in there just seems cruel to me.

I am in a place to listen to advice but I think ignoring her is terrible advice, perhaps that is because I am here with her and can see how she is behaving and how she is?

I have come here asking for advice because I need it, but the dog cannot exist in a vacuum, she exists in this house, with these children and with this family and she needs to be realistic about that. I put her in her crate last night and she relaxed overnight which is obviously fantastic, but I couldnt imagine just putting her in there and ignoring her all day long while we walk in and out. That sounds to me like dog cruelty not being nice to her at all.

Anyway, she is responding well to our methods, she is aware of what she needs to do, she is urinating in the garden and shitting in the garden, she got into the boot of the car today without having to be put in which is a huge improvement. A lot of things need to change but all-in-all she is settling in beautifully and I am glad she is not just in her crate, watching us all pass her by and not able to enjoy the sunshine, or run around the garden like a mad thing, or urinate when she needs to.

So yes, I am happy to listen to advice but please don't expect that I will follow every piece of advice I read to the letter, especially that which seems to be rather abusive (ignoring an already ignored dog) and I feel that I don't need to do.

[Fifyfomum]

By the way not one other person has suggested I ignore her. They have suggested I

-Take her to behaviourist classes

• Don't change her food (I dont know what they were feeding her unfortunately)
  

-Give her up.

nobody but you has suggested that I pack her away in a corner and ignore her for vast amounts of time.

[needastrongone]

Personally, I think there's ignoring due to cruelty, and ignoring because life is busy and the dog cannot and shouldn't be the centre of all of your thoughts.

My two have had two walks today, some training, a kong each and will get some more training later. And cuddles.

I am ignoring them now as I need to get on with stuff. I am in the same room, but giving them no attention. This is when they now that they should settle and chill, their needs have been met. But I am here, and they feel secure, which is what I meant by ignoring.

I think folk just mean give her chance to settle a bit, that's all.

I am sure she will develop a lovely bond with you, there's some stuff on the Facebook site which is helpful with teaching to be happy alone to, for the future.

I am interested to know where you got the spaniel information from?

[needastrongone]

If that's meant for me, then where did I say pack her in a corner and ignore her for vast amounts of time?

I'm off now, as I think you are not understanding some well meant advice.

Again, good luck.

[Fifyfomum]

I think we are talking at cross purposes, I can't see anywhere where I have suggested that we are training her ALL the time, so obviously there are times when she has been in the room, relaxing under my legs or stretched out on the floor (in fact I have mentioned a few of those times??) and we have been doing whatever needs to be done (like typing on Mumsnet)

But that to me is not ignoring a dog, it certainly isn't when you also have 2 young children in the room (which is their right to be) and a new dog, you have to make sure that the dog is monitored at all times around the children, especially after she has been snappy in the past. So given that I have mentioned the amount of times she has been with us and chilling, I am confused why I am still being told to ignore her, unless that means put her in her crate? Because there is nothing else we can do?? I am question marking this because if there is anything else we can do I would love to hear it.

As it is, she is responding well to the attention, the down-time and the walks so I don't feel I need to change anything up just yet.

[Fifyfomum]

Ah, unless you mean ignore bad behaviour. Which ain't going to happen, not in this house, not ever...

[Pinkje]

I'd just add (we have a 4 month spaniel), we were advised that the maximum length of walk should be 5 minutes per month old.

In fact we're doing the 1 mile walk for Sports Relief and our vet nurse was even a bit at that!

[Mygoldfishrocks]

you've picked up a dog from someone on fb and brought it into your home with young children and it's already growled and snapped?

you're mad. sorry but you are. I think your intentions were well meaning but you may find you've bitten off more than you can chew - so to speak

please make sure your kids aren't ever left alone with it. I'm sure you will though

[Fifyfomum]

The children would never be left alone with any dog... She seems to enjoy her long walks! Husky and spaniels are working dogs, of course she can walk at a slightly unfit human pace for more than 30 minutes!

[needastrongone]

If you are not prepared to ignore bad behaviour and reward the good then don't bother with the Facebook site, which is exactly what you will be told to do, the folk that edit that site, including Sally Bradbury really are experts in their field

[Fifyfomum]

The dog was with a family who had young children, so she is used to children.

She has shown absolutely no aggression towards them, none whatsoever and that is a great sign I think. We saw an opportunity to rescue a dog from a shit situation but that had been around young children and we went for it. I don't think we will regret it, my gut tells me we wont but I will be extra vigilant and careful anyway

[basildonbond]

Oh fgs you're deliberately misunderstanding me - she needs time and space to get used to a huge life change

Nowhere did I say stick her in her crate for hours

[basildonbond]

And yes she could walk for hours - doesn't mean it would be any good for her ...

[Aked]

No aggression, except when she snapped at one of them?

I'm not sure why you asked for advice op, since you know it all already. At least the methods used in 1988, so that's OK.

[furlinedsheepskinjacket]

this isn't going to end well.....

op calm down please :) your last few days sound hectic.let the dog settle in a bit.please listen to some of the advice on here as well.if you don't need it why bother posting.

[Fifyfomum]

Please could you elaborate on what you mean by 'time and space'

I came on for advice and support, not to be told I must ignore my dog and barely walk it! No wonder there are some really nasty dogs in the world!

[furlinedsheepskinjacket]

oh dear.i would just carry on with the normal day to day routine.
with a couple of shortish walks and a bit of training.
too much going on now is going to be confusing.

[Fifyfomum]

Okay well that is cool, that is pretty much what we have been doing. Obviously with a bit of teething issues (like pissing on the bed)

So this morning we woke up around 7am, I let the dog out into the garden and she had a wee and a poo (brilliant) then we had a couple of hours chilling out in the lounge, introducing doggy into our lives and making sure she was aware that the children could play and she couldn't bound around etc. She spent most of this time under my legs. Then I cleaned the kitchen and she lay in the kitchen with me while I did that.

We went for a walk around 9.30am for about an hour, not at a fast pace (at toddler pace) with me ensuring that she didn't pull on the lead/chase the kids or people which she is pretty good at.

Got back around 11ish and had some breakfast/lunch then littlest one went down for a nap and we moved stuff around in the garden (she loved this) and had some nice outside time.

I took her down into town to drop the duvet off at the dry cleaners and then we did about 30mins of loose lead training from a video I saw on facebook which she LOVED and was brilliant at.

Came back, boy woke up and had a snack, we lock the dog out in the kitchen when we are eating because otherwise she is awful trying to snatch food and so on.

Then we went out in the car, just to get a few bits and pick up the duvet, Poppy got in the boot of her own accord which was fantastic... Came back, tidied the kitchen again and made dinner (which we've just eaten) and now just relaxing in the lounge before the kids go down to bed and I will take Poppy out for another hours walk.

I've been really, really pleased with how today has gone, Poppy has been in the garden playing with us all, she's chilled out on her back in the lounge no problem and really fitted in with the family.

Yes we've had some teething problems but things are going really, really well.

She's definitely had some space and some adventure. I think she is much happier with us than she was previously, we really love her and I think she is starting to notice :)