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The doghouse

Meet Poppy

112 replies

Fifyfomum · 21/03/2014 18:50

Poppy is six months old, she is a Spaniel crossed with a Husky and has had two previous owners, the first kept her in the kitchen all the time, barely walked her and as far as I can tell gave her away when she wasn't 'puppy like' enough for them.

The second owners already had a dog and 5 children in a 2 bedroom house and when I arrived it was clear she had not been walked and was in a dirty, tiny kitchen. I found out about her through face book and immediately went to get her.

We pretty much fell in love straight away, I walked her as soon as I got home and we've been out once more today, I am just about to take her for another hours walk before settling down for the night.

She hasn't eaten much today, I put some bisto gravy in her biscuits but that didnt seem to entice her and she also hasn't passed urine or had a bowel movement since I collected her.

She is quite pulley on the lead and doesn't seem to have been trained at all, still she is very clever and has come a long way even since this morning, she is jumping up at us less and less and she is wonderful with the children.

I suppose I would love any advice on how to get her off the lead, because we live near lots of fields and I want her to be able to run and jump and do all those things that dogs do, I also want to throw balls for her and so on.

I got the best dog food that I could and a chew toy and a ball and rope thing but she hasn't really been played with so shes not really interested in any of it.

We are used to dogs, I grew up with dogs and helped my dad train our boxer and she was amazing, really calm and happy and friendly. I am sure that my husband and I can train Poppy very well. Any support or advice is greatly received.

thank you

Meet Poppy
Meet Poppy
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furlinedsheepskinjacket · 22/03/2014 21:13

well then good luck with everything and keep us posted on how things go.

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Fifyfomum · 22/03/2014 21:28

Oh I'm sure I will keep posting, if for no other reason than I am a sucker for punishment...

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Scuttlebutter · 22/03/2014 23:21

I don't think you'll listen, but I'm going to say this anyway.

Getting a dog in the way you have is NOT a responsible thing to do when you have young children.

Please, for the sake of your DC and for this poor dog, please get in touch with a reputable no kill rescue who will take it, assess it and make sure it has a secure long term home with someone who is willing to learn what is needed for a very young dog, and not to have unrealistic expectations.

If you had tried to get this dog from a reputable rescue, I doubt that they would have homed this dog in a home with DC and you being out so much, and being inexperienced dog owners.

Another red flag for me is that you say you cannot afford training classes - training classes are an essential part of raising and socialising a pup, especially given Poppy's background. Typically, round here a course of 8 classes will cost about £40. If you cannot afford £40 how on earth can you afford vet's bills? Worming? Have you taken her for a vet assessment and checked her vaccination status, worming and chip yet? Is she insured? 3rd party as well?

After two days this dog does not and cannot love you, it is still settling in, and adjusting to massive changes. You have completely unrealistic expectations of training and of the dog somehow instantly settling in, and I am deeply concerned that your partner seems to want to "dominate" the dog. I volunteer for rescue and we do not advise that training should start immediately, because the dog is still adjusting to its new environment. In this case, this is even more important, because of the lack of early socialisation (which is a major red flag for child safety).

You are going to be leaving a very young dog, still a pup for several days a week - that is not good care for her. At this stage in her life, she needs a lot of consistent care, with plenty of down time, a regular routine and a very careful assessment given her background.

If you have any trouble finding a rescue, I and others here will do our best to help you.

I have never posted like this for anyone before in many years of posting on MN, but your post has sadly set all my alarm bells ringing. Your DC should be kept safe and this poor dog should not be in this environment.

Please, if you really care about Poppy's welfare, and your DC, please consider urgently rehoming her via a responsible rescue, such as Dog's Trust.

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Mygoldfishrocks · 22/03/2014 23:56

please listen to SB

it snapped and growled at your children within a day. you've got no idea what you've taken on

rehome it with a proper rescue

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TooOldForGlitter · 23/03/2014 00:13

I third scuttlebutter but she was braver than me and actually said it.

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thinkingaboutfostering · 23/03/2014 00:17

I also agree with Sb please please do what's best for this dog.

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EvenBetter · 23/03/2014 01:34

What ScuttleButter said.
And puppies are meant to only have roughly 5 minutes exercise per month of their life, as too much will damage their rapidly growing bones for life.

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monkeyfacegrace · 23/03/2014 07:56

Youch.

I tried hinting this wasnt going to go well in my opening post.

So come on, who is going to bite first? Which dick head? Wink

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Aked · 23/03/2014 08:23

Thankyou Scuttle. My suggestion on page one and as the thread has evolved, still my opinion.

If you stick with her long term op then you have a long long rocky road ahead. I'm sorry but I am very cynical you have loose lead trained her in less than 24 hours for starters. You said she snapped at one of the children (on page one) and then claimed she had never, ever shown them any aggression. So which is it? You said she wasn't at all house trained, and hey presto! A few hours later she is house trained.

It just doesn't add up.

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Aked · 23/03/2014 08:26

Does that make me the dickhead monkey? :)

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Fifyfomum · 23/03/2014 08:30

Well she has not urinated in the house again (brilliant) so I think that taking her for a walk around 7ish and letting her out just before bedtime has done its job.

This morning she does seem happy to be in the garden alone, which is a huge improvement, possibly helped by the fact that I had a bit of a lie-in and Husband dealt with her and the kids this morning.

I will take her out for a walk in a bit, probably just a short one judging by what everyone is saying about longer walks, I've found a really nice little circuit near my house to take her down (will be better off the lead) so going to go back there again.

All in all it is working very nicely, the children have patted her this morning and she has been very kind to them, one of the children threw a toy at her which is rubbish but she immediately just came to me and Husband which is fantastic. A little bit of jumping on the couch still but again a firm 'no' and give her love and attention on the floor when she comes to us and doesn't jump up has been working.

Very pleased with my doggy! She is doing so well. I am surprised how much she has learned too, she was not at all pulley on the lead last night and am expecting she will have improved again today. Only thing I can think is that she has been trained but its not been kept up? So she has reverted back to untrained? Obviously the house training could have just been settling in issues.

Anyway it's going well.

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Fifyfomum · 23/03/2014 08:32

By the way just to clarify a few things.

  • I will not be working for a month so this is the perfect time for us to get Poppy dog, I will be with her in the house for a lot of the time, without the kids


  • I know lots of people who are out 5 days a week and use walkers, which we plan to do for 3 days a week. There is nothing wrong with that.


  • I cannot afford training now, because I am between jobs (see above) but I certainly will be able to when I am working again, it won't be a problem.
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basildonbond · 23/03/2014 08:41

Have you read the advice posted on the Facebook group about how to deal with the first few days with a rescue dog? V comprehensive and helpful (and pretty much the opposite of what you've been doing but hey ho what do qualified animal behaviourists know ...)

Really importantly has she been vaccinated? Are you going to get her spayed/insured? As if you can't afford £40 for training classes you're not going to be able to afford that, let alone a dog walker

There's no way you could possibly have trained her to walk on a loose lead or stop jumping up in 48 hours - just doesn't happen and if you're expecting quick fixes you will be very disappointed

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Fifyfomum · 23/03/2014 08:51

I have been looking at the facebook page yes and as I said I will take her out on a short walk in a bit so nothing longer.

As I have already gone through on this thread, there is nothing I could have done differently besides leave her in her crate again and ignore her, not something I am prepared to do. She is quite happy in the family room with the children and us anyway.

She has had her vaccinations, she has not been splayed which will be getting done ASAP, my plan is to get her an appointment with the vet asap and have her checked over, decide what to do about splaying.

As I have already said (sensing a running theme here) I can afford training classes when I start working again and until then I am here full-time, so no issues with training her myself ala-you tube.

I am not expecting quick fixes, I am just reporting back on what we are up to at the moment, she is not as pulley on the lead on walks now (would you like me to lie?) and she is jumping up a whole lot less than she has been.

That is what it is, I'm not going to lie about it.

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Scuttlebutter · 23/03/2014 12:59

Nobody wants you to lie. NOBODY wants to read yet another heart breaking case where a child and a dog have been involved in an incident.

This is my last post, OP, as I don't think I am getting through to you. PLEASE rehome this dog. You were kind enough to get it out of a horrible situation, but Poppy is not the right dog for you and your family.

If you do decide to surrender Poppy, please take her to a reputable rescue such as Dogs Trust (not the pound). If you need help with this, just ask - I and others will be able to advise/support. Your vet will also be able to recommend good local rescues.

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Fifyfomum · 23/03/2014 13:41

I am not rehoming my dog. She is fine with us, she has snapped at the children once because she was new, scared and had something she wanted to keep hold of. We understand this, she only has treats in the garden now alone and the children know to leave her be. She is never unattended with the children and never would be.

With all due respect though you think you might know me/my family/my dog, you don't. She is obviously used to children, she has issues with her food but she didnt aggressively snap at the child she warned him against taking away her treat. It was a stupid mistake, we know that but we aren't just going to rehome her because of a stupid mistake! If she was showing aggressive behaviour, not responding to training or being in anyway strange around the children we would most certainly rehome her but that is not the case.

She just needs some settling in time and patience. Not to be sent into a kennel after making yet another bond with a human and having it severed. That would be cruel.

SO FOR THE VERY LAST TIME:

I am NOT rehoming MY dog, I have at my disposal all the information (e.g being around her) to make that decision

I do NOT think it is 'cruelty' to say 'no' firmly to a dog and actually think that it is laughable that other people do.

I WILL protect my children and if there is any issue the situation will need to be looked at again but there has been no issues what so ever beyond her snapping in a situation where (scarily) had she been at all aggressive she would have been able to bite my young child) this is NOT a reason to rehome a dog, it just means we need to assess and make sure we are on the ball, especially while she is settling in.

So yes, if you have nothing positive to add beyond 'oh just get rid of her' then please do leave because it is not supportive at all.

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SnakeyMcBadass · 23/03/2014 14:27

Good luck, OP. I took on a puppy that hadn't been socialised at 13 weeks. He's now nearly 3. It's cost me a lot of money and time to build his confidence, but he is fear aggressive towards other dogs and probably always will be. He is easily stressed, fearful of new situations and, to be frank, fucking hard work. I have been on my knees with this dog and it is a constant (and I do mean constant) juggling act to keep everyone happy. BTW, his issues didn't make themselves truly known until he turned 1. At six months he was nervous but seemingly friendly to everyone/dog he met. This changed when he matured. My boy has never shown aggression towards a human, but has shown fear on occasion. Fear is dangerous, it can cause a dog to be unpredictable. My DC are now 13 and 10 and I do trust them with him, but when young children visit they are kept apart. I hope it works out for you, I really do, but expect problems. The degree of behavioural problems are impossible to predict, but you are unlikely to escape scot free. I'll be honest: If I had my time again, I would have taken my pup and then passed him on to a decent rescue who knew what they were doing. He is a burden, and it's not the fun dog ownership idea that I imagined. In contrast, we also have a well bred, well socialised pup who has slotted into our family seamlessly. He is a darling. Breeding and a good start count for so much.

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needastrongone · 23/03/2014 16:41

I hope it works out for you too, I think that you have done a lovely thing, and I hope that Poppy makes a wonderful addition to your family.

My spaniels are my first dogs. I love them both beyond reason, they have enhanced my lfie beyond any restrictions that they place on it. Because they were my first dogs, I read a lot and, most importantly, kept an open mind. I was lucky in that I have had them from 8 weeks and they have had the best possible start in life. Like you, I am prepared to put the work in.

I have loads to learn. I hope to get involved in rescue. I have started a diploma in canine behaviour and training. I therefore have a pile of reading material to work through.

If you honestly think that it is laughable that others use positive training methods only to train their dogs, then take your post down on the Facebook forum and read their ethos and rules. It's disrespectful to ask for advice on there if you believe what you say.

If you would like me to post a list of reading material to support positive training emthods, then I will. It's very long, so you would have to bare with me Smile. Have a read of anything by Sarah Whitehead, Karen Pryor, Jean Donaldson etc.

Here's a link to an interesting document, have a read and keep an open mind. You have dismissed in one sentence all current thinking on canine behavior and training.

//www.urbandogtraining.com.au/training-info/canine-communication/why-you-shouldnt-say-no-to-your-dog.pdf

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needastrongone · 23/03/2014 16:44

Copy and paste. Hope it helps, it's interesting if nothing else, and the author knows more than you Smile

What does she need to be told off for? Telling a dog off is simply punishing the dog for our poor training.

You must stop telling her off with immediate effect and make sure everyone else in the family is on board as well.

These four bullet points are all you need when raising a puppy.

  1. PREVENT & MANAGE


  1. REINFORCE


  1. TEACH


  1. INTERRUPT


  1. Prevent what you can wherever possible and manage the pup’s environment so that she has little or no opportunity to go wrong. This means puppy proof the house, move books from the lower shelves on the bookshelves – (I had to relocate the bottles in the wine rack in the kitchen when my pup was younger!!), put bins behind cupboard doors, use stair gates and close doors to prevent access to areas where the pup may chew precious furnishings, pick up all Persian rugs temporarily and more importantly put things away such as shoes, children’s toys etc.


Any time you dog engages in an unwanted behaviour, take a step back and ask yourself how you could have prevented it.

  1. Reinforce your pup for offering behaviours that are agreeable. This can be anything or can even be the absence of an unwanted behaviour. The best way to do this is to have a pot of small yummy treats, such as hot dog sausage, liver, cheese etc, say 30 in number and set yourself a challenge to catch your dog, 30 times during the day, doing something that you would like her to repeat. It could be lying in her bed, choosing to keep front feet on the floor when a visitor comes in, coming in from the garden, chewing her chew toy, the possibilities are endless (think I nicked that from an advert). To start with you may struggle to find 30 opportunities but because dogs do what works for them you will soon need more treats in that pot because your dog is going to be throwing these behaviours at you left, right and centre. These are behaviours that you haven’t asked for by the way and this is by far the easiest way for a dog to learn.


  1. Teach your dog what you would like her to do. The obvious ones are to walk nicely on a lead, come when called, sit, lie down, stay…. There are lots of ways to teach your dog but it is important that whatever method you choose it is easy to understand and fair to the dog. Think back to how you learned in school. I bet your favourite subject was the one where the teacher made it fun and enjoyable to learn and motivated you with praise and rewards for good work. I tend to do pretty much all of my dogs’ training during play so lots of fetch and tug games used as rewards and the dog is having a ton of fun whilst learning.


  1. Interrupt unwanted behaviour. Chewing the skirting boards and floor for example. I know from experience that it is not always possible to prevent these things when you have a puppy.

It is very difficult not to get cross when your pup does damage, it is human nature. However in terms of your relationship with your dog and insuring that it doesn’t continue into adulthood you really do have to take a deep breath and try not to scowl, the damage is done, nothing will undo it now.

So you teach your dog a positive interrupter. This can be a word or a noise, anything you like, as long as it doesn’t frighten or startle your pup. My pup’s positive interrupter is “Moss” said in a happy voice. I can use his name because I have never said it crossly or to tell him off. You could use a “Yay!!” or a kissy noise for example. All you do is use food treats, you can move to a toy later, and say the word as you give her a treat. Repeat a few hundred times. Yes really. Now watch her response to that word next time you say it when she is doing something you would like to interrupt. Once interrupted redirect her onto something more productive.

If you interrupt unwanted behaviours in a way that frightens your dog she will simply learn that these behaviours are dangerous to do when you are present and will seek opportunities to engage in them when your back is turned. And yes the dog could learn to engage in the behaviours in order to be positively interrupted BUT she will only do it when you are watching, no point when you are not, so now you can interrupt before the damage is done and meanwhile teach the dog a more rewarding behaviour instead.

Think of your relationship with you puppy as a bank account, every positive interaction is a deposit, every time you punish you make a withdrawal. As soon as your account goes overdrawn then things will just go from bad to worse but keep a nice healthy bank balance and you and you pup will soon end up as millionaires in the relationship stakes.

She is still very young but in order to regain her trust and turn this around you are going to need some professional help with your puppy, someone who can guide you and support you to change this behaviour. If you tell us where you are we can probably recommend someone. Don’t just google dog trainer/behaviourist in your area as unfortunately our industry is unregulated. We can point you towards an ethical, force-free professional.
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Fifyfomum · 23/03/2014 16:45

I don't think that it is laughable that people use their own ways and methods of training a dog. I think it is laudable that people think that is the ONLY way to the point that they will suggest anything else is cruelty. Because hrs is beyond ridiculous.

I've watched loads of you tube videos on training and they have been really helpful. Of course I am positive to my dog but saying that saying 'no' to a dog is cruel is just absurd, it really is.

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needastrongone · 23/03/2014 16:47

ps - the answer was from another question, but the advice still stands.

It's by Sally Bradbury, I take no credit but read and learn.

Good luck.

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Fifyfomum · 23/03/2014 16:49

needa thank you for your input I appreciate it but I really don't want to follow that exact method of training my dog. Sorry about that. I appreciate the advice about walk times, and the various training videos have been great fun to do in the garden. But there is absolutely no way we are on board with the 'saying no is cruel' thing. It's just not for us. Thank you anyway.

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needastrongone · 23/03/2014 16:58

Ok that's fine. Your choice. But, do please read the link and the post and keep an open mind Smile I am by no means experienced, so that's what I do.

Good luck, I am off now.

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thinkingaboutfostering · 23/03/2014 17:01

Then I really think you need to rethink having a dog. For bother the dog and your dcs sake.

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Fifyfomum · 23/03/2014 17:14

Thinking your way is not the only way.
Am aghast at the arrogance of some people!

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