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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

New Puppy Mummies No. 4

299 replies

SallyBear · 30/01/2014 10:52

Have we really got to a fourth thread already?! Grin Wow.

Please feel free to join in.

I have Toby, who is a 7 month old foxy coloured Labrador.

OP posts:
moosemama · 14/02/2014 20:44

Thanks Nigella.

Unfortunately Pip wasn't able to start socialising until he was nearly 17 weeks old, due to being very poorly when we first adopted him. By then he was fine with anyone and anything - except other dogs. He's petrified of them.

We've done a lot of work with him, he's passed his first two certificates at dog club and is happy to be around the dogs there - but unfortunately doesn't seem to have generalised that socialisation to anywhere outside of the club.

He usually just tries to hide behind me - which is no easy task given his size - but we have had a couple of little wuffs at other dogs recently and I'm really worried about his fear descending into fear aggression. I had a large-breed, fear-aggressive dog many years ago - pre dcs - and helping him took over our lives. I can't go through all that again.

basildonbond · 15/02/2014 07:48

Welcome back moose - I hope you are completely better very soon

insanityscatching · 15/02/2014 13:51

Hello I might be joining you soon. tomorrow we are going to see a Poo Shih and if all goes well put down a deposit and pick him up early March. We are really excited, been talking about having a dog for years but this is the first time we have actively looked. Hope to update and post a photo tomorrow.

moosemama · 15/02/2014 14:45

Hi insantity.

Good luck visiting your pup. Definitely come back and post a photo, I need a cute puppy fix now my boy resembles something akin to a cross between a giraffe and a kangaroo. Hmm Grin

sweetkitty · 15/02/2014 15:34

Glad you are feeling a bit better moose, poor Pip.

Nala is fantastic with other dogs, she will go and greet any dog but shows she is very submissive to the older dog. They usually either ignore her completely or have a play, if they ignore her she's happy to come away from them. Recall is very good.

Her problem still is jumping, she's so friendly she bounces up to anyone she meets, a lot of the time people might think I'm scared of their dog when I put her on her lead but it's fear of her bouncing on them Hmm we use kikopups method of turning our back completely and ignoring her and praising and rewarding when she has four paws on the floor.

She got a fright this morning down the woods and we met two men with a large Harris Hawk, Nala was terrified but I think it was the bells on it as it flew.

New puppies GrinGrinGrin

needastrongone · 15/02/2014 17:09

moose - you are back, brilliant. I am glad you are starting to feel a little better. Poor you.

kitty - there's a FB page by Sally Bradbury, dog training advice and support, that has a file about jumping up, which is well worth reading, it's a topic that comes up often.

We are on two weeks now no walking so far as Harry's paw refuses to heal, it was so deep. We are on our second set of staples, hopefully this will sort it once and for all, poor Harry has coped admirably but seems so depressed! He's learned to 'spin', pick out various toys from a pile on request and used every kong toy I have going for food Smile

Hector is a little dynamo of energy and spirit and is great fun, he's a very cuddly little soul and loves learning. Harry and Hector get on brilliantly, it's so funny to watch them play, I can't wait until they can both walk full walks.

Hector did manage to get a bit of chicken bone stuck going through his system though and last night had to have a general to remove it from his bottom, made me rethink feeding raw a touch to be honest, he had only ever had one or two small chicken wings as a treat. He bounced back within a few hours but I have a £200 bill and a bollocking from the vet.

Definitely going to leave it until he's older until trying again, I did try the minced stuff but he wasn't a fan.

moosemama · 15/02/2014 17:26

Oh no poor Harry. Sad Hope it finally heals up this time.

Sorry to hear about Hector's chicken bone problem too. Some dogs don't chew chicken wings up very well. Lurcherboy never got on with them, as he tends to swallow them almost whole and it scared the pants off me. He did much better with things like a slab (rack?) of lamb ribs all joined together or having a whole chicken frame to nibble and chew at, rather than something, bite-sized, iyswim. Oldgirl was an expert, three really hard chomps and she'd obliterated the whole wing. She started on raw at 6 weeks old - had jaws like a pitbull that girl. Grin

I have started to ramp up Pip's attention training, thinking that I will concentrate on getting him to focus on me while we're out and hope eventually he will just get used to having other dogs around and nothing terrifying happening. Bought the Kindle book of Click to Calm yesterday when I was feeling particularly crap about it all. It hasn't really told me anything I didn't already know, but it's helped to reassure me that I'm doing all the right things.

Planning to work up to taking him to lots of country fairs and vw shows and a couple of Lurcher events over the spring and summer. They're always heaving with dogs, but all on lead and usually really relaxed, calm and well behaved. Hoping he'll be thoroughly bored of seeing other dogs by the end of the summer and we'll finally have got him past his wussiness anxiety around them.

Am also re-reading the book I bought about separation anxiety when Lurcherboy had it and have finally accepted that it's me, not him that has the problem. Blush He simply doesn't do any of the things they describe, no elimination, destruction, salivation etc. He does whine a bit and he does get louder - but only if he's bored and run out of treat toys and things to do. I think that will improve with maturity. Mum wants to take me and the dcs out to lunch at the dcs favourite farm shop this half term, so I'm going to just have to bite the bullet and go and then hopefully it will be onwards and upwards from there.

NigellasGuest · 15/02/2014 18:24

oh sorry Moose, I obviously don't read all the posts so missed that information, sorry to read that. Sounds like you are doing all you can do to stop him being afraid. He's lucky to have you! needa I am horrified especially as my pup is demolishing a chicken wing as I type!!!

Sorcha1966 · 15/02/2014 18:35

Hi everyone. What a great tread

I am a first time proper puppy mummy, to Lola a 7 week old Border Collie. She came home today and seems very settled. Slept in her crate this afternoon. We have had a couple of accidents indoors but lots of success outdoors with tiny rewards - a couple of questions for those of you with much more experience than I

How often do puppies normally poo?

how many hours a day would you expect a 7 week old puppy to sleep ?

and what d you cleanup the accidents with so the puppy does not associate that spot with toileting ?

thank you all for any advice! I will try to put a photo of Lola on my profile - I have LOADS already !

Smile
NCISaddict · 15/02/2014 19:15

Hi Sorcha I've got a six month old border collie, Finn,,can't remember how much he slept when we got him but I got into the habit of feeding him in his crate and then leaving him to sleep afterwards for about an hour. If I let him out he couldn't relax unless we all sat still too! He had to be up following us and being nosy and generally border collie like.Smile
I still have to enforce a sleep after a long walk or he's completely hyper.

I think Simple solution which you can get from pet shops is whats recommended for cleaning up accidents. Poos were quite frequent, at least four times a day but very small, he's fed on raw food so I don't know if that makes a difference to frequency, I know it does to size.

basildonbond · 16/02/2014 08:54

Hi sorcha - we have a nearly 7 month old Toller puppy (sometimes described as being like collies with an 'off' switch Grin)

When we first got him - at 8 weeks - he'd be active for 1.5 to 2 hours and then conk out for a couple of hours although he slept well at night right from the start. When he was very little and he needed to sleep it didn't matter what was going on when he was tired, he'd just sleep but as he got a little older and more interested nosy we started having to enforce naps in his crate otherwise he'd get horribly overtired (just like a toddler)

We still pop him in his crate with a stuffed kong for an hour or so once a day (not always at the same time as I don't want him getting neurotic about having the same routine every day) just to make sure he is getting enough rest

NigellasGuest · 16/02/2014 09:09

hello Sorcha I am also a first time puppy mum and extremely PFB about him haha - he is a nearly 5 month old cocker spaniel. I thought I had put pics on my profile but strangely they don't seem to be there anymore????
anyway you will find I can't give you much advice as I am a complete novice but there are plenty of very very lovely, helpful people on this thread who have been an absolute godsend to me in the early days!

needastrongone · 16/02/2014 10:42

moose - If it helps, I am more anxious about the dogs then DH, they live their lives around him, despite him adoring both. he had no concerns about shutting them in the kitchen last night, despite Hector being wide awake and full of life, I would worry about toileting etc, but they just settled down. I always feel I need to do it 'right', lots of training, play, toilet breaks, walk, interaction etc. DH will play and train lots, but to his agenda. I understand your concerns and you will be on edge the whole time you are out, but perhaps if you do it once, that will be the spur to push you on.

Harry isn't great today, his leg is swollen and he won't weight bear, he's sleepy, I think it's infected. He's eating and drinking so we'll go back to the vet tomorrow rather than emergency today. He did lick a lot yesterday, but that's fairly normal, although in this case was clearly a sign.

Sorcha - my puppy has an older dog for company, so tends to sleep less, but a couple of hours play, a couple of hours sleep, repeat, is about right!

My two dogs toilet differently too, but I guess if you are feeding 3/4 meals a day, they will toilet more frequently.

Our floors are tiled or wood downstairs, so just a floor wipe for us, sorry, did you mean carpet?

SallyBear · 16/02/2014 11:27

Drumroll please! Toby cocked his leg yesterday to pee for the first time!

OP posts:
LadyTurmoil · 16/02/2014 13:33

When younger dogs are eating raw, you can bash things like chicken wings with a rolling pin or hammer first, so the bone is already broken up a bit before they get their teeth into it...

needastrongone · 16/02/2014 15:01

Lady - is that what I was supposed to do? I never did this with Harry and he was fine. Vet said usually, even big pieces of bone are broken down in the stomach, due to the acid content of the dogs stomach, but it did worry me. At least it got that far, it could have perforated his bowel, so I thank my lucky stars it nearly got out!

Vet also said he sees a lot of stuck bones, but he's not a fan of raw feeding, so I can see why he said that, although he didn't judge.

moosemama · 16/02/2014 15:18

I was told not to bash the bones before feeding them as it makes the dogs less inclined to have a proper chomp themselves and can leave sharp edges which are more likely to cause internal injury.

Plenty of vets raw feed these days and it was a vet that wrote some of the first books about BARF. Look up Ian Billinghurst and Richard Allport.

My vet found a piece of bone in Lurcherboy's bowel when he was having a prostate exam. Didn't bat an eyelid - just said "somebody's been enjoying a bone or two - lucky boy". Some bone does make it's way through the system, but it's actually pretty rare for it to be of a shape/size to cause any problems.

Sorcha1966 · 16/02/2014 15:27

Thanks - I have rolled up all the rugs so that Lola's accidents are less significant

She has done really well today although there are still lots of accidents. She has worked out that peeing outside gets her a treat and looks for it now!

The dog is great. my husband however has done exactly NOTHING for the puppy he was so desperate to get. Not even taking her outside when I told him she was about to pee. Am seriously fucked off; and worried. I work FT. We only got this dog on the basis that he is at home and can do the work...

CaptainTripps · 16/02/2014 22:18

Owner of a mini labradoodle here. He is a miniature one so perfect size, lovely, cheery chappy temperament. And as bright as a button. M
He has a sweet character and is obedient. Very low maintenance. Am so lucky to have found him. Got him at 6 months pd so he even came house trained.

Looking forward to many happy times with our new, darling boy.

sweetkitty · 16/02/2014 22:30

Hello captaintripps welcome to our little gang

Good day here had a last minute walk with Nala's brother and sister, she looks small compared to them but had a great time playing then we met a neighbours new puppy rottie/collie cross, their old GSD was PTS in the summer, don't know about that cross though. She's been asleep apart from dinner/pee/poo all evening.

LadyTurmoil · 17/02/2014 00:57

needa That bit of advice was from the raw feeding group on FB, other people said it when getting small puppies started on raw... that's all I know, I'm afraid!

basildonbond · 17/02/2014 11:28

Good walk in the sunshine (yay) yesterday - my car's broken down (again) so we had to walk to the park - it takes about 20 mins to get to the bit which is safe to let puppies off lead so up until now Fitz hasn't been big enough/had enough stamina and I haven't wanted to 'waste' all his walk-time being on the lead. He was fab - v happy walking, didn't pull (thank you perfect fit harness!), met a couple of his puppy friends, made a new friend, chased his ball lots and most excitingly of all met another Toller who turned out to be a relative of some kind (same breeder, different parents, last year's litter). They connected immediately and had the most fabulous play and Fitz worked out that if another dog tries to hump him all he needs to do is do a quick rollover and it stops - no need to get snappy Grin

He's just been picked up for puppy day care and he loves the guy who takes him - he went all wiggly and happy when he saw him and trotted off without a backwards glance!

insanityscatching · 17/02/2014 14:30

Oh I can join officially now as we have put down a deposit on our Poo Shih Grin He was born Christmas Eve and he will be called Eric (dd's choice Hmm). I've tried numerous times to upload a photo and failed so will email MN and ask if they will do it for me.
So can I ask for all your best tips for bringing a new puppy home and any recommendations for toys/bed/bedding or supplies I might need?

insanityscatching · 17/02/2014 14:37

Don't know if this link will work as I'm pretty inept as a rule.

moosemama · 17/02/2014 18:08

Hello and welcome Sorcha and CaptainTripps.

Sorcha - your profile isn't public so I can get my puppy pic fix! Grin Sorry to hear your dh isn't doing his share of puppy care. Mine was quite hands off to start with, although I think it had something to do with him feeling he was being disloyal to Oldgirl, who we lost in the Spring last year. He's totally besotted now that I've made sure Pip is well trained and does do his share of feeding, walking and toilet trips.

Insanity - the link works and he is so cute! Same name as Simon Cowell's new baby. Grin

I have spent a fair part of day watching a fantastic lecture by the American dog trainer Suzanne Clothier. It was about Arousal, Anxiety and Fear and helping trainers to understand the differences between them, recognise when they occur and approach rehabilitation. It's really helped clarify a few things in my mind re Pip's fear of other dogs and how to move forwards with it. Just the simple fact of saying that, when we say a dog is fearful or anxious we need to remember that it's far more than just a word - in that moment that dog is actually there with the heart pounding, clutching stomach etc real physical symptoms that accompany fear. The first and most fundamental thing we can do is make sure they feel safe. No training or rehabilitation can happen until then and we need to learn to recognise the individual dog's signals, so that we never push them past their safe zone. We can't work on helping them to develop the skills they need to handle whatever they're worried about until they feel safe. She's an amazing woman. It cost $20 to download, but was worth every cent.

It's made me rethink even bothering to take him in our local park for the forseeable future. His anxiety kicks in even before we approach the entrance and he clearly associates the place with fear. I have been trying, unsuccessfully to counter condition and now realise that it's never going to work. He can't counter condition his emotional response to the place because his anxiety levels are through the roof before we even get there.

So, I am going to try and find some way of helping him to develop the skills he needs to cope with having other dogs around in a place where he feels safe to begin with. It totally explains why I thought he wasn't generalising his feeling safe at dog club to our dog walks. I realised it isn't all walks, it's just that park and until his confidence and skills have developed enough for him to feel relaxed around dogs almost anywhere else, there is no point in keeping on putting him through the stress of going to our local park, as all it will do is freak him out and set him back. We need to build his skills and confidence elsewhere first and only when he's completely happy, start to address and counter-condition his negative associations with that park. That would be the very last part of the process, not the starting point.

I'm quite Angry about it really, as if we hadn't had several bad experiences with out of control off-lead hooligan dogs there, almost as soon as he was allowed out, he wouldn't have the negative associations in the first place. He is a different dog in the other two local-ish parks. So cross with myself for not realising it sooner. Sad