How can I stop my dog barging into us?

[Fivefour]

Our greyhound is 3 years old. He's blind in one eye (someone did it to him before he came to us) so he's a bit clumsy anyway. However, he's always pushing past us and barging through. It's annoying in the house but not a huge problem. The difficulty comes when we're out in the park.
He really enjoys running around and is generally well behaved but he sometimes knocks into me when running past if we're walking along the path. It's worse for my children though as obviously they're smaller and can be knocked over.
I don't think it's deliberate barging, just he's excited, big and clumsy.
Any suggestions what I can do about it would be gratefully received.

DH growls at out dogs sometimes. He still lives in the dark ages and believes that if he growls at them while he is eating and guards his plate by hugging it, they will realise he is Big Man and will stop sitting in front of him begging. They have learnt that growling indicates he does not want them to sit staring at him, instead they lay at his feet looking up at him He sees this as him winning

What he cannot manage to do is use dominance theory to explain why, when I bring food into the living room the dogs remain relaxed and utterly ignore the fact that I have food, even though I never bark or growl at them or hug my plate, I simply sit and eat.

I can use positive reinforcement to explain it. The dogs have learnt when DH growls, they'll get nada and thus they adjust their behaviour to try and gain reward. They do this by laying down and he usually does toss them a tit bit because he believes they've accepted him as pack leader . In reality all he has done is train them to believe that this frankly odd sound is an alternative command to "down"

They never beg for food from me because they learnt from day one that I will not feed them tit bits off my plate. There is no reward in it for them, so they don't bother.

at D0oing's DH growling and hugging his plate a dinner time.

at Ddogs thinking ''why cant he just say down, like everyone else''

My DH is convinced that when the dogs put their paws on him for attention they are trying to dominate him. I try to tell him but honestly it makes me laugh to watch the dogs paw him and he moves their paw to the flour over and over and over and over. Then when they give up, bored of not getting a cuddle he thinks he has one!

Ha, ha, never growled or bared teeth. But one raised eyebrow and my dogs know it is time out. A small smile and a nod, and they come as it is time for a cuddle or treat. A single nod with no smile, means sit or down. A slight tilt of the head to the right means go right and so on

Big girl gets it right away, puppy is still learning how to read expressions. This takes time. They are learning to focus on me and read my face. Rather than focus on treats. It builds a bond and helps develop their attention span.

No wonder some of you prattle on, if the only contrast to your approach is your clueless dp's, then yes perhaps you can claim to have the better approach. But it is not much of a contest, really.

Flatbread, I do find it bizarre that you say your bitch pins your puppy down and 'disciplines' it. I think this speaks volumes, as I have a lot of experience with litters and so do a lot of people I know, yet none have seen bitches 'discipline' puppies in the way you describe.

Personally, I don't think you know much about dogs or dog behaviour at all and you are misinterpreting what is happening. But of course, you will still thinkt hat you must be right and everyone else, even those who have far more experience of dogs than you do and professional qualifications in that field, are wrong...

My dog would not be able to read such subtle facial cues. Hand signals, yes. Tone of voice, sure. A raised eyebrow? Nope. He waggles his own eyebrows frequently in a Roger Moore stylee, but I don't think he realises.

Flatbread you always turn a thread into personal insults and then blame the rest of us. There is no need to be so rude.

You state unfounded comments eg "my dogs will growl if corrected" You have never met my dogs!

My dogs are working dogs, two are PAT dogs (that meet the public daily) one is a search and rescue dog that searches for very often vunerable people, believe me they are balanced, well trained and have no need to growl as they have never been put in a postition to be threatened. It is my job to make sure they feel secure and confident in all situations.

I have spent 4 years training assistance dogs to help disabled people all using positive training methods - I have seen that the methods work so I am happy backing out of this futile discussion that you seem to want again to turn into a bun fight.

Incidentally dogs do treat other animals differently - why do some dogs chase squirrels!?!?!

OP re your original request on how to stop your dog barging into you. I would teach a steady command.

Have him on a lead and run with him in an excited manner then slow down to a walk and tell him steady.

Again run off quite fast for you not the dog (obvioulsy you may have to get Usain Bolt to help with this or restrict the speed of your dog!) slow down again and tell him steady.

Gradually the steady command will mean a slower pace

I would then start to introduce the steady in slightly restricted areas eg set up two chairs, or a narrow door frame and run up to them and then walk between them again saying steady. Steady will mean a slower pace where the dog has to think about his whole body.

Lay a ladder on the floor and get him to walk over it putting his feet in the spaces between the ladder again give the steady command to remind him to think about his body.

If you have a gym ball you can get him to balance his front legs on the balance ball and again give a steady command to make him think about balancing.

Can you get him to walk along a narrow low wall, or kerb again with the steady command.

So then next time he charges around in that fantastic lurcher sighthound way you can call out steady and he will slow his pace and not bump into you, the door or the dc's.

Wow, Herbert. I'd love to get you to meet Jasper and give me some training tips. I'm sort of going it blind at the moment, and he's a smart dog that is capable of much more than I ask of him.

Am sure you must post for a laugh Flatbread, I do love confidence but if you adopt a stance contrary to the best practice espoused by the main UK dog/animal welfare orgs, training methods used by Search and Rescue, the Police, seeing/hearing dogs etc then you can't be so amazed that people are underwhelmed by your energetic rubbishing of the methods, owners and dogs.

I am not a trainer I have pets, usually rescues and I imagine that there is no real difference in the practical approaches of the vast majority of posters and readers of these boards. Reinforce good behaviour whilst being kind and vaguely consistent probably covers what most people do and a reward is a reward whether a stroke, a ball, food or a carefully tilted eyebrow.

Take a pup, do the basics in any fashion and you usually get a decent dog. If you don't you raise your game and train more then you do and unless you are unlucky, meet adverse situations or are particularly inept at dog reading you get a fine dog. Take a bog standard rescue and the same will be true, take the more demanding dogs or dogs used for more demanding purposes and I think you see theory really tested.

There is no huge divide between your dogs or any other normal run of the mill dog, dogs trained through whatever reward don't need the reward once the behaviour is established. Different dogs work for different rewards not all are food, ball or eyebrow orientated.

I use positive methods because I have taken the best advice available and have seen the vast progress made. I have read Caesar and lots of other stuff but only reward based training got the results I needed. My last rescue was fourteen stone, a bite that could enclose my head, immense power and an awful history. It hadn't been socialised or house trained, but it had been hurt, had fits, and was very dog aggressive. Had I snatched the first bone away whilst bollocking the dog I fear we would have ended very badly also stress made him fit which would further increase my chances of getting bitten. I could have tried to pin him down but the best outcome there would have been an inelegant ride round the locality. Anyway this became a dog my toddler could walk, take anything from and who was a big old soppy very well mannered house guest. I don't mean by that he could be enticed off the sofa with an organic ham bone.

Incidentally fivefour I imagine your dog won't necessarily compensate for the missing eye perfectly, the side he can see from is still possibly going to be clumsy if his depth perception is off.

Yes, my DH did have some weird ideas about Pack Theory etc.

I have told him how wrong it is and he has done his own research and realised how wrong he was and that our dogs are not evil and trying to plan a canine revolution.

herbert - would you like to come and train my dogs!?

and Op what herbet says above, I realise I do this and it works also 'back' which means you can't pass me. Makes them slow by default. Some have never been as space aware as others though, have a really clumsy one at the moment.

Midori, if your dogs have an issue being held down on their side, I am afraid you have nervous, under socialised dogs. Mine are held on the side when I am grooming and examining for ticks and gasp, even rolled on their back when I need to look at their paws and tummy. Oh my god, it must be the dreaded alpha roll, the poor dogs!!!

And whisper, I even roll the puppy from side to side holding on to his shoulder and leg in play. His tail must be wagging in fear. The horror. And that he likes it done again and again must mean that he is a masochist.

Bonkers as conkers hysteria

I think everyone trains their dog to a large extent with treats, cuddles, rewards. It is only the fanatics who say every other technique for training is dominance theory or ineffective or less effective.

Quote gave some excellent advice, but she was instantly dismissed by posters because her suggestions didn't fit within some narrow worldview. OP found it of value and so did I, but if the zealots of the doghouse had their way, she would have been hounded out and her experience/ suggestions discredited.

Flatbread - I doubt midori was talking about it in that context and you absolutely know that. You like to used what PP say and then twist it to suit your needs and make you sound like you know what you're talking about.

She was referring to you saying that you repremand your puppy by pinning it down. That is not play/checking for fleas/love. You do it for a punishment and most peoples dog would not respond very well to that.

Flatbread - I am desperately trying to be as nice as possible but you do make it very hard.

It wasn't the advice that was discredited, as I have already pointed out that you chose to ignore it was the reference to the Dominance Theory that PP pointed out IS outdated and not a training technique that should be used.

Wow, some excellent advice from Scuttle (a long time ago) and Herbertjane.

My dogs have an 'easy' command for slow down but it wouldn't have occurred to me to train it further for narrow spaces. That's brilliant.

Flat, I am amazed that someone with a doctorate has such little regard for the scientific process and for other people's expertise, or even for the importance of having a sample larger than three on which to base one's ideas. Still, enjoy the new kitchen.

Thanks, Red. New kitchen is lovely. Was really nervous about how it would look as it is rustic-meet-scandinavia style, but it works. And my old kitchen table and chairs fit nicely. Whew!

I do pay attention to data, love it in fact, but have a pretty attuned bullshit radar to recognise good research from bad. And know never to believe fanatically in one thing, and more importantly, never apply a single theory to life, be it marriage or relationships or dog rearing

Your kitchen sounds nice :) am jealous, could do with a new one.

I don't know what you mean about a 'bullshit radar' though, because it doesn't sound like you read any of the books or links people suggest. And some of the books (e.g. the Bradshaw one) are by scientists and you could actually evaluate what they say. I honestly think you would enjoy the Bradshaw book, that you would already agree with some of what he says (about breeds) and that it might change your thinking on a few other things.

"Midori, if your dogs have an issue being held down on their side, I am afraid you have nervous, under socialised dogs"

Wow, how perceptive! one of my dogs, a rescue dog is nervous and he was also undersocialised (as in not socialised at all and had the crap kicked out of him) as a puppy before we had him and unfortunately as we didn't get him until he was older and he was past the 'crucial' stage for socialisation, then it is very difficult to alter behaviours that are, in effect, hard wired into him. However, I can do whatever I want to him if I am sensible about it. If you tried to get him to lay on his side, he might bite you, but then that's a massive improvement on no stranger being able to get within 20ft of him without an almighty row/horrendous reaction from him.

My other dogs... well, anyone could do pretty much anythingtothem and they'd probably put up with it. They might not be happy about it or happy at all though.

Anyway, as I said, you will never believe that the fact that no one at all seems to agree with you might actually mean something...

Actually quotes comments were pretty dogmatic, many other posters point out that actually you can train what behaviours you want in your dog.

You share a philosophy so she sounds great to you. Others can choose what sounds best for them.

What would you do, out of interest, with fourteen stone of growly dog unused to leads, affection, being house trained, examined?

Bilateral, of course everyone should do whatever suits their dog best. I am not the mad arrogant one suggesting one training method for all situations, irrespective of past experiences, nature of the dog and level of trust.

But any so called behaviourist who does not understand that dogs live in hierarchies and need leadership is in denial, probably because they have no clue how to be a leader.

This is not the same as dominance. I have a boss at work, and he certainly does not dominate me and nor do I dominate those who work for me. But there is a hierarchy and rules, otherwise it would be chaos. To equate leadership with dominance shows a lack of understanding. I think of my household as a family business where I am CEO and we all work together for our combined benefit.

Regarding your dog, no clue what I would do. Haven't met the bugger and from what you describe, don't want to!

Aah but you would like to meet him, now. he is lubely,now...

Thanks to the folks who have added suggestions for me. herbertjane I will definitely try out some of your ideas though I think the gym ball may well be going too far for our dog as he'd probably just fall over!

Jesus, why does the dominance theory row make people so nasty? I see both sides and also have a great deal of respect for the main posters on here, they are supportive and kind in all other areas. If some people choose to believe in a theory and some don't why can't we just choose how to look after our own dogs? It is obvious there is an element of good sense in both of the sides of this row. I do think that sometimes people get attacked for using the word dominant when they mean their dogs display a type of behaviour and pecking order, not that they stand over them, scream at them, hit them or anything else. Why not just apply whatever works for your group of pets and let them guide you.