How can I stop my dog barging into us?

[Fivefour]

Our greyhound is 3 years old. He's blind in one eye (someone did it to him before he came to us) so he's a bit clumsy anyway. However, he's always pushing past us and barging through. It's annoying in the house but not a huge problem. The difficulty comes when we're out in the park.
He really enjoys running around and is generally well behaved but he sometimes knocks into me when running past if we're walking along the path. It's worse for my children though as obviously they're smaller and can be knocked over.
I don't think it's deliberate barging, just he's excited, big and clumsy.
Any suggestions what I can do about it would be gratefully received.

Dogs do not need leadership within a home.

Dogs may form different relationships with other dogs, research as shown that even then, there is no alpha 'top' dog. They work together, eat together and learn how to interact and recognise each others behaviour.

Flatbread - You love a good argument, dont you dear

Don't most of us just do what instinctively feels right when dealing with our dogs? It made sense to me to use treats to teach basic commands. It makes sense to me to use a 'uh uh!' sound when I want to stop a behaviour. It makes sense to me to let the dog know that he is allowed on the sofa for a snooze, but must get down again as soon as instructed. I haven't consciously thought about it, but he is a friendly, happy little dog. I know my dogs character, and I don't need to be aggressive or dominant to get him to cooperate. He wants to cooperate because he's learnt that Good Things happen when he pleases me. If he does something bad, he gets a 'baaaah!' and no treats. I think dogs are quite bright really.

Dogs do not need leadership within a home

Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that dogs need leadership, it gives them security. Even Gwen Bailey, whom many on this forum recommend, advises it.

I do love a good argument, but you don't get that in the doghouse. Only ideological nonsense from people who seem to take great pleasure in driving alternative viewpoints off the doghouse board.

Leadership isn't the same as dominance. I'd say I 'lead' my dog's behaviour. He looks to me when we're out and about for cues as to how he should behave etc. I can influence how he interacts with other dogs, for example, by saying 'ok' if he's allowed to play or 'wait' etc. I get what Flatbread is saying about a dog feeling secure.

The point is chicken, no one is being aggressive. This is the straw man, to the 'give treats for all situations' brigade here masquerading as positive reinforcement.

Anyone who talks about coupling rewards for good behaviour with correction or boundaries is some crazy domination theory believer, who alpha rolls their dog on a regular basis, according to these posters. Talk about a straw man!

Where exactly did quote talk about being aggressive with the dog? Is feeding humans before dogs, or walking out of the door before the dog being aggressive? No. So what is the issue? Ah, some people feel that dogs are pack animals who live in a hierarchy and others believe that this is not true. Ok. But don't see the issue of aggression here. Leadership is not aggression. It is being fair and being calm/ consistent with boundaries and providing security to your pack. However you choose to do it depends on the nature of the dog.

I would also say that leadership is not interchangable with "dominance". I would hope I don't dominate my children, for example, but I do lead them e.g. teaching right from wrong etc.

Dogs (as with children) will either do what you want because you have built up a relationship of mutual respect, or one of fear. However, often in the latter case the dog will turn on you at some point.

Crossposted with chicken

OP OP Fivefour Over here

You could have left your dog with me for free and gone home with a stable, balanced dog a month later

Except, I wouldn't end up with that, because if my dog growled at you (or your husband) for trying to steal his bone and you (or your husband) decided to pin him down, as you did with your puppy, you would get badly bitten and where would that leave my dog? Incidentally, I can take anything I want from him, as can any member of my family. He has been taught (with 'sweeties') that he has nothing to fear from us taking something he has, even if he really, really wants or values it.

I think that maybe you should get onto the universities that teach dog behaviour and tell them they are all wrong...

FWIW, I do agree that dogs need a sort of leader. After all, someone has got to be in charge. However, that is not the same as being 'pack leader' and research is continually showing us that even dogs do not live in 'packs' the way we have long thought they do, especially domestic dogs. Even wolves, on which pack theory is based, do not behave like the wolves in the study did, so how come we base dog behaviour theories on that?

Plus, I will never believe that the training or behaviour methods that pack theory lead to, such as pinning down and alpha rolling, are good for any dog and as I have said before, most of the major veterinary, animal behaviour and animal welfare groups agree with that. (as per the link dooin has posted)

I don't physically discipline my dog, unless you count grabbing his collar to stop him injuring himself or knocking someone/thing over. I've never heard of pinning or alpha rolling, but having looked them up they look like an excellent way to lose a chunk out of your retreating arse cheek.

Flatbread what I meant is that they dont want to be the leader - If you think your dog wants to be the leader you are suggesting your dog want to be dominant and it doesn't.

Dogs are happy with rules if they dont have them they will do as they please, this isn't leadership or dominance it is just a dog with no boundries doing what it likes.

Well, this topic took rather a turn didn't it!
Fwiw, I think quoteunquote had some of it right, maybe not that our dog wants to be dominant but It's essential that the dog decides that he is going to make an effort to be aware, at the moment he has no reason to make that a priority, once he has put it to the top of his list of important things to remember, he will no longer knock into humans, at the moment he has no intention to make an effort this sounds exactly like him. He does seem to have a total disregard for others' space.
Also, I don't think it is always about his lack of vision as the last time he bumped into ds it was on the side that he can see out of.

I have seen strong disciplining. That is what my mum dog does with the puppy.

I am very gentle yet firm... is holding puppy down on the shoulder with one arm for a couple of seconds harming it? Do you never physically touch your dog?

Obviously my pup sees things differently than you because he is a dog. He doesn't understand a long explanation of why he should not resource guard his bone. But a simple, calm gesture showed him that this was not ok, and now he never resource guards his food with us, or anything else really. In fact when neighbour's dog comes by when puppy is having a bone, puppy will prudently run to me and chew his bone right next to me. Because he knows I control resources and I am fair and I will protect him.

Dogs understand human emotions. They understand when we are calm and firm vs. out of balance. All rewards and corrections need to be done in a calm way. This is not about domination, it is about simple leadership.

I'd like to point out also that I dont treat my dogs with every good behaviour, I also use love, affection, walks and play as a reward.

Quote talked about Pack Leader Theory and that is what started this discussion. Posters here just want to stear people clear of using this type of training method. She also talked about the dog needing to know who is boss or something along those lines, therefore we are pointing out that that is not the case.

Pinning a puppy down may work for you and hey, thats your choice but I personally would rather not use these kind of methods to teach something that I can do without hurting/frightening or dominating my dogs.

Calm assertive energy, yeah? Isn't that what CM always talks about and yet I've seen him scare the shit out of many dogs on the tv. No Thanks. Not for me or my dogs.

Dogs may pick up on simple human emotions but you know full well that is not what I was getting at.

I suppose I think that if you can get the dog to want to meet you half way, you will ultimately have a more trusting relationship. Forcing compliance will work, too, of course. But I'm not sure I'd be as certain that a lesson had really been learned. That said, I have never had a dog that guarded anything from me. He can be a bit stroppy with other dogs if they touch the Amazing Ball Of Squeakiness, but he is happy for humans to touch all of his stuff. He steps away from his food bowl if anyone approaches hoping he'll get something else

Holding a dog down on the shoulder doesn't sound like simple leadership to me, it sounds like dominance.

Yup, do whatever works for you. That is the point. I know my dogs and what works for them.

If you think pinning down a puppy for a couple of seconds is such deal, please don't let your dogs play with other dogs. They will be seriously traumatised. For the rest of their lives. Will need full on therapy from an expensive behaviour consultant and lots of treats to get over it.

Playing with other dogs and interacting with their owner is completely different. You know this.

My dog has been sat on for being annoying. In fact, the boarder's 4 labs took it in turns Of course, dogs interact with each other in a different way than we like them to interact either humans. I don't let Jasper sniff visitors' arses, or give them a hello shag, or lick their genitals. These are often displayed amongst his contemporaries. He knows I'm not a dog, and the rules are different.

Dogs are not born with two completely different set of norms for the dog vs human world.

We teach them what is acceptable and not in the human world, and they learn accordingly. They start by doing the same things on us they do with their mum dog and siblings, such as mouthing etc. We teach them what is ok and not. And yes, my puppy has tried to sniff my bum on occasion

All this hand waving is nonsense. I use very little words and my dogs understand what I want from small gestures and facial expressions. Especially when they are puppies and a lot of talking is just noise. Physical gestures which they understand immediately from their own world are effective and non confusing. They also learn our language over time.

Holding a puppy down physically is dominance.

I can honestly say that I have never ever ever had to physically reprimand or control my dogs ever and never ever will.

Dogs ARE born with two completely different ways of communicating with humans and dogs. That is exactly how they have survived and become domesticated. Do some reading on this

Barry Eaton

coppinger

Agree with herbertjane.

at dogs treating humans like dogs. Do you think if I growl, foam at the mouth and show my teeth to my dogs they'll understand I want to be left alone?

Wait.... I'll try it....

Nope, they both wagged their tails and then gave me a bit of a

If I bark or howl at Jasper he tries to stuff one of his toys in my mouth . I'm clearly no good at speaking dog.

Hebert, yes, whatever. Are they also born with a different code of conduct for cats, donkeys and goats? What about chimpanzees...are dogs born with an innate chimpanzee code of conduct, and importantly, is it similar to human code of conduct, based on our similarity?

You are welcome to your dogs, and i am to mine. Mine are great and the best is that I do correct them and they love me and want to please me. They do stuff for me, not treats. Yours would probably growl at you if you corrected them, so please stick to treats.

Anyway, gotta run as new kitchen is arriving in minutes. Sooo excited!!!

OP, glad you got it sorted