VERY STRESSED! Considering whether or not to give our rescue dog back

[OoohMrCoyne]

Hi folks, I'm very stressed and haven't stopped crying since 8am this morning. I'm in a real state and I need some advice...

5 weeks ago we adopted a recue dog, a Chihuahua (with about a 1/4 JRT). Most of the time, when he is at home with me during the daytime he is lovely, very affectionate cuddly little lap dog. Exactly as I'd hoped for. He has become very attached to me and my DD. He's OK, but less affectionate, with my DH and DS.

BUT:

1. He is aggressive with other dogs, which means I can't take him on walks to places where other dogs are off lead, or on the school run (because I can't tie him up next to the other dogs). It's really limiting where we can go. We live in a town, so there are lots of dogs around. When we meet one he goes into mad dog mode: barking, bites his lead, nips me if I get close enough. Its awful and really stressful.

2. He is really weird about being touched if you are trying to put a lead on or off, a collar or harness on. Basically any kind of touching with 'things'. Because of 3) below, we HAVE to have a lead on him at all times, even in the house. This morning he managed to get his harness partly off, so the lead was no longer secure. It took me half an hour to get another lead on his collar and then the lead off the harness. In doing so, he snarled, nipped and eventually bit me. I can't clean his eyes, wipe him, put a coat on when it's cold, nothing....

3. He is aggressive with vistors to our house. We are open-plan, which makes it really hard to deal with. I have to open the door with his lead held tightly at arms length for the postman/courier (meanwhile hes in mad dog mode wanting to bite them). Its a right palaver if the visitor is actually staying. We have a routine in place to deal with this. But I know some of my friends (with DCs) are feeling concerned about this and not wanting to come round. I'm starting to worry about my DCs playdates too.

The result of the above is:

My DS won't play downstairs any more because he's frightened.

Both DC's arent keen on going on dog walks because of incidents with other dogs. It scares them.

Both DCs are missing out on playdates at home, because I don't want their friends being nipped.

I'm actually quite scared of interacting with collar/lead etc. Its ridiculous that I can't deal with my own dog, but I just CAN'T - I don't like being bitten!

My DH says that this just isn't how we thought dog ownership would be and I'm sorry to say that he's right... It makes me cry to admit it.

On the one hand I love my cuddly little house-dog... I really do adore him. But I also feel very stressed (actually we are ALL pretty stressed) and can't face 14-18 years of this...

We have looked into getting help from a behaviouarlist, but its really expensive and money is very very tight.

Just don't know what to do for the best...

Be quiet Willow.

flippin eck Williwisp! The op has done the very best thing she could have. Initially by offering a dog a second chance of a home and then in realising that this was not actually making the dog any happier! A dog is or life?! That is like saying you should stay in an abusive marriage because marriage is for life. Ridiculous

Erm, yes, what Willow has said here has been quite out of order.
However... some of the points W has tried to make are worth considering.

I would consider a Chi-X-JRT likely to be potentially difficult for possible aggression problems.

I don't know if you were a first time owner, OMC, but if you were then I think it would have been sensible for the rescue centre to have asked you how much you knew about these breeds and whether you had any experience dealing with nervous or snappy dogs. (IME these problems are much more prevalent amongst tiny dogs, and smallness certainly doesn't make the problem any easier to deal with.)

I also think that not enough is made of the possibility of rescue dogs going through a sort of 'teenage' phase once they're settled in with their adopters. (And yes, the information's out there, but that could be said about anything, in hindsight...)

I know that there are many 'good' rescue centres who are doing their best to look after and rehome dogs as well as possible, but they sometimes don't have much expertise in the range of breeds or x-breeds that they're dealing with. I don't think this makes them 'bad' at the work they're doing, but it might mean that as an adopter you need to put in some extra leg-work in researching breeds.

There's a great deal of competitive/double edged advice about dog training so that there can be a tendency to overlook possible causes of behaviour problems (and that's just in the dogs - never mind the owners...) - which is why I suggested the possiblity of an injury (and I still wouldn't rule it out, even if he was checked twice).

OMC - we had to return a rehomed GSD we'd had for 3 weeks after he bit my daughter's face (he'd already bitten another daughter's hand). It's a horrible feeling, and we felt we'd let him (and our daughters) down, as he was a lovely dog, finding his feet. If we could have got him safely through the first few months, I think we'd have been fine with him, but it was the right thing to take him back. My bitten daughter(4 at the time) was gutted that we took him back, and still remembers him fondly!

Then started the search again for the right dog again. It's easier to adopt a baby, don't you think? At least we had breed experience of babies!

Anyway, a month later we got our lovely collie boy from a brilliant collie rescue. 3 weeks in, I wasn't at all sure about him, when he snapped at the previously-bitten dd. But he was such a different type of dog, very uncertain of himself, rarely left his crate, needed a lead on to tempt him out. But 6 months made a huge difference to him, and we've had him just over a year now, and he's brilliant, great with the kids, even plays now. After 8 months we got another collie from the same rescue, partly for company for the 1st, partly as he was so much more confident with other dogs around. She also is fab, really, really good with the kids, and a typical velcro-rescue dog. We still have toileting issues with both dogs, but that aside, they've been very little bother.

So.... you can have a very different outcome with a different dog. But I know my confidence was very knocked by the experience with the GSD, didn't know if we were doing the right thing at all. But we're so glad now, we love our 2 and they have added so much to our family.

And I would recommend crate use, from the beginning. It's a refuge for a dog, especially a rescue.

Absolutely appalling, I am truly disgusted at this - please could a few more people report her?

Her responses to u are way out of line. Ignore her OMrC. Realty. Just ignore her

OMC the best thing you can do is NOT rise to willows comments. They are absolutely apalling.

And a bit of a cheek considering her mother just rehomed a dog!

By the way - for those who actually see this before MN Towers get their act together and delete this thread - I am so appalled that this will be my last MN post ever. Will not recommend this forum to anyone else.
Thanks to all those who actually helped, supported and gave useful advice and didnt just try to make me feel like sh*t.
Over and out...

Ha Har! I'm BACK!

Have had a productive few days. Once I'd done a decent amount of crying and moping, I picked myself up and decided to contact all local rescues and a selection of Chi / Toy Breed rescues/forums/associations. Initially this was to 1) check if we'd done the right thing and see if they would have taken him and 2) to drum up some new experienced owners - by signposting them to the rescue he's at now.

I am happy to report that NONE of them would have taken him and ALL advised giving him back to the rescue he came from, which DOES have a good reputation. If we'd been dishonest and not mentioned where he was from, all of our local recuse are full and have WAITING LISTS of about two weeks. Which would have been too risky, bearing in mind how things were escalating.

Bertie now has a list of prospective new owners and a 'matchmaking' meeting will be happening very soon. The rescue have gone a step further and listed him as a 'single owner' dog. He has been assessed by a behaviourist and they decided that he just can't cope with a 'pack' at home and basically we wouldn't have had a hope in hell of sorting him out.

One of the rescue associations, which works only with fosterers, has said that they feel so sorry for us and the devastation and distress this has caused (particularly to my DCs) that they are going to find us the perfect dog very soon. I had a 1 hour phone interview last night and a general homecheck is happening soon, then we are top of the list for an APPROPRIATE dog.

Finally, a well-socialised and properly trained Chi or JRT is FINE with children - those in the know have told me its perfectly possible to have either breed or a + in a family environment. Ok so I admit they aren't the best choice, but it is possible - we have just been very unlucky.

I will update again at some point with human - canine happy endings.

Willowisp - please have a long hard look at yourself. I only hope you just behave this badly online and not in person. MN are aware of your behaviour and were very sympathetic. Please refrain from posting on any future threads of mine. Thank you.

That's a great outcome OohMrC, now you can fully absolve yourself from all blame in this situation with this particular dog. I really hope you get the dog your family deserves and that it works out for you all 2nd time round. You absolutely did everything right. Well done

see, not your fault at all, like we all said (except willow) Nothing wrong with a chi x jrt if properly socialised, trained etc - but that applies to ALL dogs.

I hope you find a suitable rescue dog soon. Good luck to you.

Ooh and keep us posted.

Oh Yesh! (sorry - I have a bit of a thing about the Churchill dog)

Right, I am going to step in here and say that although I didn't see Willow's deleted post, I do agree with the sentiment that a dog is for life. They are yours for their lifetime, not as long as it's no longer convenient and although there are some cases where it's impossible to keep a dog or it's best for the dog to be rehomed, if more people thought like this there would absolutely be less dogs being killed each year because no one wants them.

That said, OP, you were not really at fault here and I can see why you felt you couldn't keep the dog, but I really don't think anywhere that advises a dog behaves this way due to 'dominance' or 'being too big for his boots' or that forces a muzzle on an already frightened dog unless it's an absolute emergency where there is no other solution is the best place to be getting a dog from. Dogs that behave in this way, especially small dogs, are usually doing so because they are very frightened and anything such as forcing a muzzle on will make the problem worse.

I do think in your situation if you wish to get another rescue dog then one that has been assessed in a family home situation and from a rescue that do not agree with dominance/pack theory is the way to go. I also think it is worth considering that any dogs behaviour or needs can change at any time and whether you are prepared to deal with this. Perhaps breed rescue may be the way to go if you want a specific breed, although it will probably involve a longer wait. All credit to you for getting a rescue in the first place though and I'm sorry the situation turned out so badly. As the owner of an extremely dog aggressive dog, I do appreciate how difficult and stressful it is, even to an experienced owner, let alone a novice one.

Sigh....

Re: a dog is for life... It was not a matter of 'convenience' he went back.

He was the wrong dog for us and we were the wrong owners for him.

Painful though it was, and still is, I'd rather rehome him than have my DC / DC's friends faces scarred for life. If things had been allowed to get worse and he had bitten them like me and DH had been bitten (puncture wounds with blood), then his outlook could have been far bleaker.

I love animals, dogs in particular, but I'm afraid my children have to come first.

Ignore Willow's posts, OoohMrC. Really not worth it.

I think that you did the right thing. While I recall thinking "OMG, what have I done", not long after we got our dog, it was the change in circumstances, the wee on the floor, the having to arrange someone to take the dog if we wanted to go out. Not the actual dog herself, who has always been a darling.

Bertie was not the right dog for a family with children. He will be much happier and settled with an owner who has the time and patience to give him the training he needs, one who is not torn between helping the dog and protecting her family.

I can highly recommend Maltese Terrier, if you are looking for a small dog, particularly when X with Cavalier King Charles.

Well, seeing as you're getting arsey when I was trying to be polite about it...

The alternative to risking your children or returning the dog would have been to create a situation where the dog was happier and the DC safe from being frightened/bitten until you could have consulted a decent behaviourist for advice on how to move forward. I'm guessing that wasn't convenient?

midori
I don't think that the OP was being arsey, but going by everyone's response to Willow's deleted posts, I suspect that she is slightly on the defensive now.

From what the OP posted, the dog would have needed a lot of work and an experienced dog owner would be better placed to help him.

Some dogs are not suited to life with a family, and it is unfair on the dog to put them in that situation.

I agree that family situations do not suit all dogs. However, I do not agree the OP wasn't getting arsey, but hey ho.

I do not necessarily think the OP should have kept the dog, but I also do not think the rescue it came from was the best place for it at all, in any way, shape or form.

midori Im not sure if all the posts are still on this thread, but the dog came from a pound, was in rescue for 1 week and then rehomed to coyne who is inexperienced as a dog owner.

Turns out this dog is not suitable to be homed with children - but as the rescue/pounds had not done enough work with the dog they didnt realise this. Surely the best situation is that it is returned to the rescue? Who have decided now to do more assessment to this dog and not have him rehomed as a family dog?

As the OP said, no breed rescue was willing to take him due to his issues/very long waiting lists.

As an aside. (not directed at midori, but others who dont need naming)
It amazes me that people who are apparently experienced dog people scream 'breed rescue' like it is some sort of magic cure for everything and they have unlimited space, resources and ontap behaviourists. They dont, they are a rescue charity like every other and have a waiting list as long as your arm.

No I wasn't getting arsey - just very fed up of explaining and justifying myself.

Midiori - you did not see all the previous posts. They were appalling and I was made to feel 'to blame' for everything and that I'd done exactly the wrong thing.
One of the deleted ones put this in poisonous, insulting language, so yes I am feeling a bit sensitive and wary.

I have lots count of the number of professionals who advised me to give Bertie back to the rescue before something really bad happened.

Crate training again - Bertie was not food orientated and could ignore treats if he wanted to. We tried to crate train him and never got to the stage of shutting the doors without him going mad. Upon exit he ran round the house like a mad beast and then bit my DH.

Anyway - he's gone now and soon to be matched with all his applications.

I just want to move on.

As in - I just want to move on: please let me.

Midiori - I did consult a behaviorist. My vet referred me.
She said "unless you have about £1000 a year and a lot of time on your hands I suggest you rehome him".
Our insurance would not have covered us, I thought it might, but it wouldn't.