VERY STRESSED! Considering whether or not to give our rescue dog back

[OoohMrCoyne]

Hi folks, I'm very stressed and haven't stopped crying since 8am this morning. I'm in a real state and I need some advice...

5 weeks ago we adopted a recue dog, a Chihuahua (with about a 1/4 JRT). Most of the time, when he is at home with me during the daytime he is lovely, very affectionate cuddly little lap dog. Exactly as I'd hoped for. He has become very attached to me and my DD. He's OK, but less affectionate, with my DH and DS.

BUT:

1. He is aggressive with other dogs, which means I can't take him on walks to places where other dogs are off lead, or on the school run (because I can't tie him up next to the other dogs). It's really limiting where we can go. We live in a town, so there are lots of dogs around. When we meet one he goes into mad dog mode: barking, bites his lead, nips me if I get close enough. Its awful and really stressful.

2. He is really weird about being touched if you are trying to put a lead on or off, a collar or harness on. Basically any kind of touching with 'things'. Because of 3) below, we HAVE to have a lead on him at all times, even in the house. This morning he managed to get his harness partly off, so the lead was no longer secure. It took me half an hour to get another lead on his collar and then the lead off the harness. In doing so, he snarled, nipped and eventually bit me. I can't clean his eyes, wipe him, put a coat on when it's cold, nothing....

3. He is aggressive with vistors to our house. We are open-plan, which makes it really hard to deal with. I have to open the door with his lead held tightly at arms length for the postman/courier (meanwhile hes in mad dog mode wanting to bite them). Its a right palaver if the visitor is actually staying. We have a routine in place to deal with this. But I know some of my friends (with DCs) are feeling concerned about this and not wanting to come round. I'm starting to worry about my DCs playdates too.

The result of the above is:

My DS won't play downstairs any more because he's frightened.

Both DC's arent keen on going on dog walks because of incidents with other dogs. It scares them.

Both DCs are missing out on playdates at home, because I don't want their friends being nipped.

I'm actually quite scared of interacting with collar/lead etc. Its ridiculous that I can't deal with my own dog, but I just CAN'T - I don't like being bitten!

My DH says that this just isn't how we thought dog ownership would be and I'm sorry to say that he's right... It makes me cry to admit it.

On the one hand I love my cuddly little house-dog... I really do adore him. But I also feel very stressed (actually we are ALL pretty stressed) and can't face 14-18 years of this...

We have looked into getting help from a behaviouarlist, but its really expensive and money is very very tight.

Just don't know what to do for the best...

My mum has recently rehomed a very disturbed little poodle that came from a rescue via a pound. To cut a long story short, I contacted a breed rescue, who were very kind & gave advice & my mum felt he would be better there. So if you have ANY concerns of the rescue, please do not take him, instead, contact breed rescue or any rescue that uses experienced foster homes.

Ref keeping, you've got to work hard unfortunately. We've rehomed a cav & I had the crate ready. I felt unsure about whether she would be ok & actually she's fine with it (ok she wee'd & pooed the first night !).

We have hard floors in our kitchen so the crate is a much nicer place to be. She has a crate mat & a blanket over the top. The DC's know to give her space & of course we are all getting to know one another.

At the risk of maybe being controversial, keep way from the dog whisperer (assuming Cesar Milan ?) DH & I have watched back to back programmes of him & Victoria Stillwell & she absolutely makes sense & gets results with positive reinforcement. Cesar's methods are unclear & difficult to understand.

Have you thought about training classes too ?

Willow sorry your mum had such a hard time with the poodle, I seem to remember you did a thread about it?

For the record, Cesar Milan is very much hated on MN, his methods are cruel, he uses shock collars, forces dogs into submission and he also hung a husky by its collar in one episode. He also uses the 'pack' theory which is a load of old codswallop.

Victoria Stillwell however, is a very good trainer, I like her programmes.

Gritters, thank you. Yes I did post a couple of threads. DM rang the lady who is fostering him & he is still screaming at night, but improving...fingers crossed. Dm told me she did her best, which I disagree with, but I digress & hopefully he's at the right place.

I'm trying the Victoria stillwell methods with success with my little girl. I'm finding you have to committed, patient & persevere to get results.

OP - make the dog what you want to be, get stair gates up. I had my dc & their friends, they played in 1 room, dog was in her crate with her chewy.

Get a muzzle so he can't bite. Take dog for walk after school run.
Get him off the sofa, take his bed in the lounge & let him doze in there.

How are you putting the harness on ? I'm noticing that when I put ours on, my face is very close to hers, so perhaps he's feeling intimidated ? Why don't you just leave the collar on all the time & surely you have a kitchen door to lock him behind ?

Victoria stillwell gets visitors to come round & throw a treat to dogs, so they realize they are ok.

My rescue has strongly recommended Victoria's book The Perfect Dog, I am just waiting for our library copy to arrive.

Easy to Eat - I carried him because school allowed me to go into the playground to collect my DCs but ONLY if I carried him. I have now given up taking him to school altogether. I don't carry him for any other reason and I certainly don't pick him up when other dogs are around. If I did, he would definitely bite me.

I'm trying to figure out how to deal with him when he does get snappy. Shouting and pointing at him doesn't work. I need a 'safe' way to deal with him, to discourage him and not let him think he's got away with it.

Thanks for ideas so far.

Yes I like Victoria Stillwell too!

For the record, the layout of my house doesn't really help much. No hallway, front door into living room, kitchen downstairs but open plan (no kitchen door) but we have put up a baby gate at the bottom. He sleeps in the kitchen with baby gate on and is generally ok. Only two attempts at escape in 5 weeks.

The crate is in the living room, not far from the front door. But we are not yet using it with doors shut. He goes in there a couple of times a day for a nibble on his chew only.

But yes we can keep him in the kitchen when friends come over. It's just a pain if we want a drink or anything! And of course the DCs are in and out too ... Even though I tell them not to.

RE. your open playness, I'd reiterate using the crate more. Can you put the crate in the kitchen?

grr, 'open-plan' ness

I dont blame you if you take him back. He needs a single owner by the sound of it. Little dogs like yours are often nippy...saying that...I rescued two Siamese cats from a local shelter and they were a NIGHTMARE for 5 months....peeing on beds daily. I came here and got good advice and they're fine now.

When you rescue an animal it's a shock sometimes as they can have emotional troubles.

I certainly wouldn't have a dog who snapped and bit, in a home with children. Very irresponsible of the rescue shelter to allow him to go with you.

I'd say that he is untrustworthy and very likely to hurt someone. I would take him back.

I used to work in a rescue shelter - we would never have had you take this bad tempered dog home to your kids.

Well, I've slept on it and I don't feel much better...

DH and DS want to take him back, DD is devastated and doesn't and I'm still feeling awful. I'm just not convinced we can turn a 2-3 year old with such dominant behaviour around. We don't have the money for the support and I don't know if I can cope with the work involved.

I've known other families get rescue dogs which were far better with children.

It's looking fairly likely he will be going back to the rescue tomorrow :-(

I feel crap and I look like an exotic frog (from all the crying).

My last dog was a rescue chihuahua. (2 broken hips, a tail bitten off, only ever ate chips, & had 2 be castrated so a REAL recsue).

For the 1st year he had to be muzzled in public, and it took a LOT of help from the Animal Samaritans charity to help me transform him into a wonderful pet. (Battersea would have just put him down). At the time I was a single, childless student, living alone so I could dedicate to him all the time he needed. It paid off as I had him over 15 years till he died in his sleep aged 18, when DS was at nursery. I still miss him.

However your dog is in a family situation, and the rescue aren't giving you the expert support needed. I'm so sorry but I really do think this dog needs more tlc than an ordinary family can give it. It needs socialising gradually in way too many situations, and there WILL be a time when you turn your back or your reactions are bit slower cos you've got flu etc.

In your shoes I'd take it back to the rescue, with a full written report of what the problems are. It's the kindest thing for all of you.

Then if you still want a rescue - choose one from a charity that fosters. If a dog has spent a few months in a family home for foster any assurances you get re it's character are likely to be pretty accurate.

This isn't your fault and you are not being cruel - from one whose been there!

Sounds tough, however he has only been with you for 5 weeks so still lots of settling to do and he is nowhere near as relaxed as he will be when he sees it as his home. I suppose you won't know if he has had a traumatic past as a rescue dog.

A practical suggestion would be to put a muzzle on him - will stop him biting but will be able to be around you and get to know the family, then as things improve and you all gain confidence - dog too - you maybe able to train him out of it. But a muzzle is a good thing to try if you don't want to give up on the dog yet as it is only early days.

good luck

On the plus side - if you do take him back you will be able to give the home a much clearer picture of what character he has so they can identify a more suitable home next time. Often the unknown is more of a problem as it can cause dogs to bounce, if next owner knows what they are taking on it gives him better chance of permanent solution.

Let us know how you get on.

OoohMr I feel for you.

Please do think about a breed rescue or one that can take him to be fostered.

Alternatively, sit down & think how you want him to behave. You might be surprised that once you do this & start putting into practice, things become easier.

Our cav is in the lounge & instead of being on the sofa, she is in her bed, her choice. I was concerned that every time I sat down, she'd sit with me.

The throwing treats is really effective.

Also move the crate as far from the front door as possible, when someone knocks, throw him a treat & shut the door. I've found the key is treat before the problem starts.

Whereabouts are you ?

www.the-british-chihuahua-club.org.uk/Rescue/Object.php

Please contact these guys who I'm sure will give you advice.

Ps the form you've signed is pretty much worthless, if you feel the dog would be better off elsewhere. Clearly a judgement error has been made with the rehoming & if he goes into kennels, how is he expected to be rehabilitated ?

And, other than a cursory call, I doubt they will bother to call round. (personal experience here)

We were given a muzzle by the rescue centre last week - they demonstrated it. He went absolutely MENTAL when they put it on. As soon as they removed it he bit the woman. Presumably you'd have to remove it so he can eat etc. I'm really not up for it. He shook for three hours afterwards. Very traumatic.

His behaviour has definately worsened this week, since I've taken advice to be stricter with him. He's now barking at and nipping my children and their friends. I'm not prepared to tolerate this.

I cannot see the point in having a 'family dog' who has to be muzzled and/or go into a crate so that everyone is safe, who we can't go on walks to dog friendly places with, camping, picnics, the beach etc. My husband can't bond with him and my children are scared.

If it was just up to me and I lived alone I would work through this with him. But I am a mum of two children who have to be put first in this.

Bertie is currently snoozing on my lap and it absolutely breaks my heart to say that we are taking him back to the rescue tomorrow.

Thank you all - feel so much better for support and suggestions. Have written a four page 'report' to take with us tomorrow. Kids are going to a friends house for the day. Will let you know what happens.

I think that you have made the right decision, his issues are too severe for an inexperienced family with children (no offense.)

As he's a small dog there is a much greater chance that somebody will be prepared to take him on even with his problems but if you are not confident that the rescue you got him from will act responsibly please talk to the breed rescue first.

And don't let one bad experience put you off all rescues and rescue dogs!

Have spoken to the rescue this morning - very long chat. They will definately not rehome him with children and will be looking for a more experienced owner. I did feel they were being more responsible and that he will be ok with them.

Had a bad night, could not sleep. Have just spoken to the kids and DS is still hugely relieved, DD is upset - doesn't want him because of all the nipping and barking he did yesterday morning.

The hardest thing is that he's obviously still being all cuddly and lovely with me (Alpha Bitch that I am!), so a horrid day ahead... Not sure of the best way to say goodbye.

It's the best solution all round if he finds an owner who can handle his character as it is, instead of expecting him to be different.

Will they let you know if they find his next home? Or are you better just making a clean break?

At least you made the decision reasonably quickly so he has had a nice long holiday with you - out of kennels - but his attachment won't be that deep in the grand scheme of things.

Well done. Hope you aren't too distressed to say goodbye - for his sake try to keep calm and not cry until he is out of sight.

:)

Well it was pretty awful... DCs acted up all morning, so we were very relieved when a friend took them off to the cinema. Sat on the sofa with him for a bit and then we drove him back to the rescue (50 minute journey each way). He shook all the way in the car (like he did when we collected him). But luckily the staff there were very matter of fact and good about it and didn't really allow us to wallow. It was all pretty short and sweet when we got there. I'd said goodbye properly at home.

Currently in fetal position in bed sobbing...

DH is making tea downstairs and DCs are still out. The house is very quiet.

Hoping I'll feel less wretched in a few days time.

Thanks for your support MNers - it REALLY helped me. X

If you ever feel ready to give another rescue dog a chance try and go for a dog that's been fostered in a home with kids so you don't get put in this position again.

Just read your update and I'm sure you have done the best thing here.