4 month dog with permanent diarrhoea

[Tuggy]

I have a 4 month old labrador who has has runny stool (liquid mainly) since day 2/3 or getting her. When she arrived from the breeder she was fine.

We weaned her off the Hills (from breeder) and onto Orijen to match our other dog. We tried the plain boiled rice diet but every time we got her stools vaguely normal (it normally took about 7 days of just rice) we'd add a teeny wee bit of biscuits and the liquid poo returned.

This was a recurring cycle and she's never had solid stools. The vet is not concerned as she is gaining weight as he'd expect, and she isn't 'down' or lethargic or anything odd. The only thing is this liquid stool. You'd never know otherwise that there was a problem.

We recently had her in kennels and the owner said he was confident that the orijen was the problem. He said as its about 40% protein its waaaay to much for a dog (even though this is the puppy specific food) He put her back on Hills for the week and claims her stools were pretty good. He gave us some Hills to take away.

We got home, and her stools were all runny again. She's been home for 3 days now and stool back liquid (this is on the Hills still)

We don't see Hills as a permanent solution as it doesn't rate high like orijen on the dog food analysis sites. Anyway her stool is liquid. Jets of liquid.

We're going crazy with trying to work out what to do. I've ordered some fish4dogs as its lower protein than Orijen. But is high protein really the cause of diarreah? The dog is up needing to go out 3 or 4 times a night. We're tearing our hair out. I need my sleep. please help!!

OK. That really doesn't sound right.

How much food are you feeding and how often? How much does the dog weigh?

You're right. Orijen is really good food and far better than Hills, IMO. Which Orijen are you feeding?

Has the vet asked for a sample to check for infection?

i would be going back to the vet and asking for stools or the liquid to be tested, the poor thing may look ok to the vet but i bet its not feeling it. This needs further investigation.

The Orijen is the puppy one

www.mumspets.co.uk/dogs.aspx?productid=10604

and we feed her 3 times a day, the amount that it says on the bag. She weighs about 13kg I think she is thin but not underweight. She looks fine. Howevr we are obviously concerned.

After being blown off by the vet as hypochondriacs (i'm sure he thought) we just took his word for it. I think we need to go back though and be more forceful.

We have tried feeding her the quote all through the day (as in weighing the daily quota out in the morning and then drip feeding it to her about 8 meals a day) but it had no effect.

www.mumspets.co.uk/dogs.aspx?productid=10604

You're right. She needs to get back to the vet pronto and see what's causing the problem. Don't let the vet push you about or feel stupid; you have a really poorly dog. Squirty poo shouldn't happen at all in a healthy dog.

It could be to do with the food; Orijen is very protein rich. But the first step is to eliminate an infection with a poo sample. I'd go so far as to collect one just before the appointment and take it with me and insist. You are not being a hypochondriac or neurotic.

Ask for a different vet, or change practice if you're not confident you'll be listened to.

get the vet to check the pancreas(i think!)

my cat had runny poo for years and all the vets we took him too said nothing was wrong, did endless stool tests etc, in the end we took him back to the vet where we used to live, who is ace, and he said it was probably his pancreas (hope it's the right organ i'm remembering!) that was going funny, gave him some pills and his poo went back to normal overnight.

I meant to add, it could be a problem with one of the protein sources in Orijen; egg would be my first guess. The fish4dogs will eliminate that but your dog can't be absorbing much of the goodness in the food at the moment because it's flying through her system at a rate of knots. Is she drinking a lot too?

She drinks a normal amount I think. Doesn't seem too much or too little. My poor doggy I will definitely be more pushy at the vet. Its just that she seems fine, totally normal personality and everything.

Thanks for the info about pancreas. Anyone else got any suggestions that I can suggest to the vet or ask to be checked? i'd like to know the possibilities so I'm a bit more knowledgeable about it.

Will phone in the morning thanks everyone

Have you tried giving less food? They don't always need as much as it says on the pack and runny poos can be a sign of overfeeding. My lab produces vast amounts of loose stools if I give him the recommended amount. It took a while to work out the connection, vet was no use just kept telling me to put him on chicken and rice till the diarrhoea stopped. He has around three quarters the amount and has firm poops twice a day and wt fine.

I would second going back to the vet and politely but firmly asking for a thorough review. If they are not willing to work with your concerns on this, then you should immediately find another practice. I'm usually the first to defend vets, but splatty stools for this length of time in such a young dog would worry me greatly. I'd want to check for Giardia (spelling may not be quite right) and also ask the vet if she has an inflamed bowel. There could also be a parasite dimension, or several other possibilities. Are you confident of the quality of worming/parasite control when she was a pup, and in her mum?

I'd also give her poor system a rest and actually let her fast for a day or two, just giving her the electrolyte mix you get when dogs are very dehydrated or have D & V. I'd be concerned that if things are going through at that speed, she may not be absorbing food/minerals properly.

We eventually went over to a raw food diet, prompted by one of our dogs who has a very sensitive tum - it has helped enormously.

Our collie puppy was the same. Her breeder had fed her Royal Canin Puppy and we continued with it for a few weeks. Her poos were dreadful. Very loose, very green and lots of it! We switched to Orijen and, whilst the colour of her poo was a more normal brown, it was still very, very loose. We finally switched to a Raw diet (Natural Instinct at morning and lunch feeds and chicken wings in the evening). The change has been amazing - small amounts of firm poo! It is such a relief to be able to pick up her poo rather than clean it off pavements with wipes (bleuuurrrrgh!!)

I am a vet, and if you brought her in to me with this story, I would be sending off a faeces sample at this stage, as a first step to making a diagnosis. A new puppy will sometimes be loose for the first few days after changing homes, with the stress of the move etc, but a problem as bad as you say for as long as you say is likely to have a physical cause. I would certainly take her back to the vet (with a sample) and ask for them to do some investigation. Good luck!

the diet i would try for this would be fish with some rice or yoghurt (goats milk yoghurt)

fish from here

I would definitely go back to the vet and push for further tests, but if nothing shows up, we've found Naturediet brilliant at firming up poo.

I'm another vet, and I'd second sending a faecal sample to the lab. Campylobacter is another pathogen that can cause ongoing diarrhoea in young dogs, and should be checked out.

If the faecal sample is negative, it may be worth looking at the food angle again. Different dogs have very different tolerances to food/ protein, and there is no one food (IMO) that is universally "the best" for each and every dog, otherwise the rest would be out of business! My old boy has always had a sensitive tummy, and I tried him on almost every "good" food over the first few years of his life. The only food he seems to be able to tolerate on an ongoing basis is dried chappie- the cheapest of the cheap, high fibre, def not up there with your premium brands, but works for him. He is 16 now and very fit and happy (although pretty much senile ) so it can't be too awful! Hope you find a solution for your runny pup!

Vet visit to rule out physical causes first. I would also want to know what the breeder has wormed the pup with and on what regime and what she has been wormed with since.

I would also reduce the food, it certainly won't do any harm. Too much food easily causes diarrhea and dogs rarely ever need the recommended amount of food suggested by the manufacturer.

Thank you. Have tried to collect a sample (eeew its liquid!) and will push for testing. She was wormed regularly and we have wormed her with the tablets from the vet (not the supermarket) on the schedule they recommended (every 2 weeks I think)

Poor Rosie... :(

ooh.and try small meals a few times a day.

My dog (Springer spaniel) has always had diarrhoea if we give her anything other than the cheapest dried food. Wagg from Asda seems to do the trick.

Am far from an expert but I think I'd cut down her food.

You say you are feeding to what the packet says. I feed my 19 week old Cav fish4dogs and I give less than HALF the recommended daily amount on the packet. She just doesn't need it - and obviously food manufacturers want to feed as much as possible as it is in their interests. I also feed just twice a day.

So maybe consider doing that as well as another trip to the vets.

Yet another vet here saying faecal sample is the way to go. I have seen campylobacteur, samonella, high worm egg counts and giardia causing diarrhoea in puppies.
I second Jooly that if all that is clear chappie is often a good choice for dogs with sensitive tums.

Foods don't suit every dog, having said that I have just reared 7 puppies on Orijen, my 2nd litter on Orijen, no problem.
As Midori said reduce the amount of food, none of mine get the feeding guide amount and they are fine.

All my dogs eat either Acana or Orijen.

I have a foster terrier with me at the moment and this dog has tested postive for Campylobacter.
Thankfully tested before the others picked it up and he hadn't mixed with the other dogs hardly at all as I was settling him in.

Good luck with your puppy.

My puppy had the same problem when he was smaller and we tried several reputable brands of dried food to no avail. Our vet tested for Campo etc. with no luck and we eventually moved him on to BARF. We have not looked back since!!

He is now 8 months old. Does lovely firm poop (sorry ) and eats a wonderful and varied diet that is sooooooooo much cheaper than dried food. He has shiny coat, great teeth, is full of energy, doesn't fart much and is generally happy

I second everything mollymoocow says. I was very apprehensive when the breeder told us that our puppy had been weaned onto raw bones, but am a complete convert - very happy dog with no bad breath who gets most of her food free from our local butcher.