My dog just bit my son. Twice :o(

[AboardtheAxiom]

DS is now terrified and is begging me to take the dog back to the pound.

He hasn't broken the skin (ds had thick pjs on) but he has left a bruised lump on DS's leg.

I can't believe it. DS was just stood watching TV 1st time, 2nd time was sat at the table!

I half to go out at half 8 and need to make a plan.

Dog is barking in kitchen and DS is crying (again) in living room.

Has a dog got to cause serious damage before anyone gives enough of a shit to do something about it ?

Maybe we just ought to cross our fingers and hope next time the kid doesn't get it's face ripped off or have to have councilling for PTSD or has a life long phobia of dogs.

If not this child then someone else child.

Good God.

But someone is doing something about it aren't they? Have I read the thread wrong, I thought the dog was going but to a non kill rescue. Apologies if I have read it wrong, it's not easy to follow with deletions.

one post and we're back to concern for the dog and where the dog ends up....

(prepares to be flamed [hide] )

What do you propose she do LunarRose, throw the dog out onto the street?

This thread is very emotive and I have mixed feelings about this issue.

However, I do wonder how many of the posters who are calling for the dog to be destroyed have or have had dogs? For someone who has no experience of them, the situation sounds grave, but the OP has done the right thing in seeking help and ensuring the safety of her child, without acting too rashly.

I have a 7 month old puppy and as someone else here mentioned, if I had had reacted like some of these posters every time he nipped or snapped in the first few months of having him I would never own a dog again.

Puppies/young dogs make mistakes, just like young humans do. The key is reaction and training. I still watch my dog like a hawk around strangers/children.

The OP and Valhalla will be working together to find a solution here.
For the record, I have no specific or superior knowledge to anyone here, but I do think that I have common sense.

I did say early on that I would be desperately phoning anyone I could think of who had the space to take the dog for the night. I would say the dog should be in the garden for the night but then that depends on how little no garden the OP has.

But I really think what happens to the dog is secondary to the feelings of a child.

LunarRose- most of us on this thread agree that it is a priority to ensure that the dog won't bite either this child or another child ever again.

However, euthanasia is not the only way to achieve this. The matter of whether the dog will remain in the house with the child is resolved, and the child's future is not in jeopardy, so that really just leaves us to discuss the fate of the dog.

Right, where is this sodding dog and where is the child, am losing the plot here, thought they had been separated and dog will be going, is that not the case?

Blimey!

OP I apologise for not reading you OP properly, I read it several times, but must have been blind to the part when you explained the injury. It does seem, having gotten some further information, that you were given very bad advice by what you thought was a rescue centre but is in fact a pound that seemingly didn't care less where this dog went or if the home was suitable, so I can see that you are not entirely to blame. However, I do think you need to take partial responsibility for this because a) collies or their crosses are not suitable for your home circumstances and b) the dog was able to 'bite' your son twice when something should have really been done after the first incident. It is clear you car every much for this dog and have it's best interests at heart though, so I apologise also for being harsh.

For those saying the dog should be PTS... I wonder how much real dog experience you have? Other than owning a pet dog or two, I mean? Because Val has extensive experience in working with truly aggressive dogs and those who rehabilitate them, so does know what she is talking about. Also note that although she spends a huge amount of time with dogs that actually are aggressive over lots of years, she has been bitten less than a handful of times.

If a dog meant to do damage, it would have done, through thick pjamas, through a thick coat even. They have teeth than can chew bones to pieces for goodness sake and lightening quick reactions, so a pair of pjamas, no matter how thick are hardly going to be a problem for them to bite through, are they?!

Collies are bred to nip, that is a part of their 'job description'. They are not really suitable in the main as family pets because of that, because they can also become obsessive and need a huge amount of mental stimulation and exercise.

Wynken the op posted earlier to say that until something more permanent could be arranged she would be keeping the dog on a lead while her son is in the house and that her son is happy with this arrangement.

Sigh

Human child is safe. Dog is tethered.

But I was trying to point out that the child needs to FEEL safe too. Human adult knows dogs is tethered dog is safe is logically. Human child who has just been bitten and is also autistic may not be able to follow that logic. Speaking as a child who was bitten at a much older age I did not feel safe with a dog for many year (as still nervous) and thankfully my parents removed the dog from the house before I even got back from hospital. Experience of autistic child tells me that I might not even know how he's feeling for quite some time.

Hence concern for human child over animal. Where the animal in the short term is minor as long as it is not in the house or at least the child does not know it to be in the house.

Incidentally I do not believe that a dog should automatically be put to sleep IF triggers can be identified and suitable home found (my old dog as I said was not put to sleep). But that is a question for the morning or a few days time when the dust has settled.

Thanks Dooin. Jooly and Midori are here now talking sense thank goodness.

who would adopt a dog they know to be a biter??

No-one in their right mind NotaMopsa.

A "biter"? That didn't break the skin.

Notamopsa, look at the responses above. Jooly is a praactising veterinary surgeon. I'm an experienced rescuer. Midori is one of those rare people, a reputable, highly knowlegable and experienced breeder of a working breed of dog.

And Worzsel is speaking bollocks again.

no a bruise is totally acceptable and means that the dog didn't really bite the child

But the dog can't be simply labelled as "a biter". Totally agree with midori- collies are nippers. If you have ever seen them work with sheep you see how they "nip" at a stray sheep to get it moving. They never savage said sheep, just nip at it. It really is part of their genetic make-up. To many collies children are strange little mini-humans- their body language is often erratic and very different from adult human body language. They can move jerkily, quickly or unexpectedly, and this seems to trigger the nipping response.

For all that, a nip can be painful, so I think the OP has done the right thing thinking of rehoming. But noone has suggested she just give the dog to the family next door/ her brother's family/ advertise it in the paper. The dog needs to be assessed by someone qualified/ experienced enough to do so. There are plenty of people out there, experienced with collies who could take on this dog and prevent it from getting into a situation where it could bite a child. These guys need mental stimulation- they are at their worst when they get bored.

Again, this is no reflection on the OP. She did her best to give the dog a good home. The dog has turned out not to be suitable for her circumstances and she is going to deal with that, as a responsible parent and dog owner. Understandably she is upset, but she is NOT shoving this under the carpet and hoping it will go away- she is dealing with it.

There are lots of homes which could be right for this dog. Honestly!

Nota-I would and in fact did. A colie cross in a rescue for nipping his previous owners he was 4-5 months old. Had they been in the mind set of people on this thread my poor Shep would have been long dead, he is now 7 has spent hours with my autistic little brother and my 3 year old niece and has never bitten anyone again because I trained him.

FFS next time a kid hits another I guess we should put them down. Incidentally do you all agree with the death sentence or is it just aimed at animals?

vallhalla i also work in the veterinary world and do not know many people who would adopt a known (unprovoked) biter

tsil i just think they are difficult to rehome
obviously not all 'nips' should be pts

Notamopsa - DH and I would take on such a dog in the right circumstances.
We have lots of dog experience (DH in particular) and we have in the past (and now) had problem dogs who became fabulous non-agressive pets.

Wow! Maybe you should stop defending the dog and actually think that a child has been left hurt, scared and worried.

Your first response Val, to the OP was not one of concern to the child or even to check the LO was ok. You just moved on the welfare of the dog and probably put her straight onto a guilt trip.

It is obvious in her 7.21 post that she wants the dog away from her ds ASAP.

Then you come along while her head is still probably spinning, with this post:

"FFS Please don't return him to the pound - they WILL KILL HIM.

If you are unwilling to work with him then he needs a no-kill rescue place and rehabilitation. I can help find that, please get back to me/pm me, whichever. It won't be easy but I'll do my utmost to help if you'll let me.

If you will do so please can you tell me his breed/size, age and the circumstances so I can start the ball rolling.

Please don't let him die."

Pretty heartless toward her and her DS don't you think?
I am actually pleased you work with dogs and not people ..you seem more at home with dumb animals.

"! If they are not mentally stimulated as well as being exercised, then they will provide their own entertainment - whether that be re-decorating the house or re-designing the fixtures, fittings and furniture, or using that extremely strong herding and nipping instinct on the kids, cat, local jogger or just the nearest moving object..... the list could go on.

Many Border Collies are wrongly accused of being snappy or vicious, when in fact, all they are doing is following their natural instinct to herd. This instinct channelled into something such as obedience, agility or flyball can produce a wonderful friend and loyal, faithful companion.

The main thing to remember is, when you decide to take a Border Collie into your home, you are taking a Working Dog into your lives - not an easy pet dog."

WICCAWEYS - probably THE most respected Border Collie rescue in the country, an organisation to whom the Dogs Trust, RSPCA and councils are known to have turned for advice.

I spoke to Sarah at Wiccaweys this afternoon, on the OPs behalf and with her blessing. They have a 6 month waiting list for dogs to come to rescue from homes and are getting over 100 calls asking them to take in BC a week. The vast majority of the applications from homes are from those who didn't realise the commitment needed to own a BC or BC cross and who cannot cope, be that because the dog is too demanding or herding and/or nipping.

Sarah will be speaking to the OP within the next couple of days to advise and ask for more info of her. Her current stance is in agreement with mine - that this is a case of wrong home, not a dog that's a wrong 'un and who deserves or needs to die.