Labradoodle Owners - advice needed please?

[onoffon]

I posted similar questions under a different topic but someone suggested reposting with 'labradoodle' in the title!

Have spent hours reading all the wise MNetters advice about puppies/dogs etc as DH and I have decided to get a dog later this year; but I just have a couple of questions.

We can't get one straight away because we're waiting to move from London out to the countryside (Sussex), but when should we start looking? and how do you find a good breeder?

And should I just wait until we're ready and then look for adverts of recent litters, or should I identify a good breeder now, visit them to see previous litters so then I can get first pick of a later litter?

Can anyone recommend a good breeder?

Thanks

I have five gen pedigrees for all of my lot, good Labradoodle breeders actively avoid inbreeding.

I'm no vet but happen to know that there are some lines of Poodles known for producing shocking hip scores no not sure the reasoning that they don't carry weight so automatically have good hips stands?

Somewhere on the BVA website the previous year's hip score results are recorded and you will see that the breed mean score for Labradoodles is 13 which iirc is the same, if not less than the BMS for both Labs and Poodles.

Here www.bva.co.uk/public/documents/Breed_Specific_Statistics.pdf

weight puts more strain on the joints. to be diagnosed - usually there has to be a noticeable problem. weight makes any problem worse. got me?

typical treatment for HD involves a slimming diet - for a reason.

if you got your 5 gen pedigree from your breder, of course that makes it 100% trustworthy

Of course weight makes it worse but if it was only dependant on weight then you would have no Labs with good hips?

As far as the pedigree goes, depends how much you trust your breeder, just the same as with a KC breeder, they are just as capible of lies and deceit too?

the KC keeps an independent record. although you can't be 100% sure, there is much much more in the way of correlation as it doesn't all depend on info from one breeder.

I have seen people realy surpised when they are told the pedigree they have is either 1) complete twaddle or 2) full of closely related dogs. (as after all, without the breeding record, who is to say that 'waggydog igglepiggle' and 'waggydog upsydaisy' are brother and sister - the unsupecting person looks at the docs and is satisfied not to see the same dog twice)

There is that risk with UK multi gens, I'll give you that I would like to see a proper registry for UK Doodles similar to the alaeu for Australian Labradoodles. Wonder if breeders of UK multi gens put microchip numbers on the pedigree? The BVA certainly accept these as permanent id for hip scoring etc. Presumably though Igglepiggle and Upsiedaisie would have the same parents and these would be on the Pedigree for all to see? . As far as my own dogs go I have an F1 and can verify her pedigree as genuine, same with my F1b but I will concede that this is because all of the dogs except the mother of my F1b are KC reg.

Actually I was looking at a Pedigree KC Reg dog's pedigree today (long story) and was dismayed to find that the dog is a product of a mating between (to put it in human terms) an Uncle and a Niece, looks like incest is OK at the KC so long as it's recorded in a database and the offspring given a number.

we chose to get a doddle because thats what a friend had, we wanted a dog, but I prefer larger dogs and my friend had a litter. Ours is a much loved pet and he is huge. He is very food lead and easy to train in some areas and not others. His recall is excellent apart from when another dog is around . He is a great dog but very lively and would never recommend a doddle as an easy dog, he requires a good amount of excersice and a good diet especially early on when he would eat anything he found.

We must be incredibly lucky because out doodle has been fine to train. I've found her much easier to deal with than my previous dogs. She is also fine with other dogs because she's been socialised from a very early age.

herebefore well there you have the benefit of a clear and reliable record.

you don't like that level of inbreeding - you can say no if you like. one uncle/niece or similar mating in a 5 gen pedigree wouldn't put me off that much (unless the dogs involved had known health problems, or were likely to be carriers for known health problems, same as goes for any dogs on a pedigree yada yada ) as that level of inbreeding you might find in wild dogs. The problem isn't the incest but the resulting health problems after all. Although Labradoodle breders are getting wise to testing and workng out inbreeding coefficients there jst isn't the same infrastructure for it.

Actually the most obviously false pedigree had 'waggydog igglepiggle' mated to 'waggydog Makkapakka' ...

anyway cuddly dogs for rehoming anyone?

I still don't understand why Igglepiggle and Makkapakka's parents weren't clearly stated on the Pedigree then it would have been clear that they were brother and sister? Then maybe that's how these rogue breeders work?

Not too many moons ago the practice of letting a new stud 'have a go' with his Mum for his first litter was not uncommon in the Pedigree world, I personally don't see that a pup produced from an uncle and neice is that much better and I admire Labradoodle breeders who have strict requirements regarding inbreeding.

I have heard some interesting news today regarding a registry for UK Labradoodles so will be interested to see how this pans out.

As a Home Checker and Transporter for the Trust I'm delighted to see your link!

erm i see you aren't into ITNG ! -they are both boys!

LOL, sorry my kids are too old for itng! . Hence my long break from MN but something magnetic has drawn me back! . I am more up with the Teletubbies and Tweenies. Yes I can see distinct problems with that Pedigree and understand a bit better. Waiting to see how this new registry will work, think it will be a positive thing for the Doodle Community.

Not too many moons ago the practice of letting a new stud 'have a go' with his Mum for his first litter was not uncommon in the Pedigree world,

a breeder would completely toast their reputation by doing such a thing. any breeder. and do you claim anything different was done in the dark days of the past by crossbreeders? or that the most likely person to perform such a mating now would be a commercial breeder or hobby breeder with no reputation to lose, and no breed club to take them to task?

i am not a breeder anyway - but as far as i am aware there is no body in the same capacity as a breed club for doodles to oversee those 'strict requirements' of which you speak, and no mechanism for certifying matings.

just to be clear: what annoys me is the notion that because they are crossbreeds they aren't inbred and don't suffer genetic disease. not true. Health testing and careful selective breeding is the way forwards for healthy pups.

health testing and hip scoring that was already a live issue when i bought my dog ten years ago... her COI is only slightly higher than that of a wolf.

I don't think i link to that rescue often enough. Those dogs need homes!

bit rambly, sorry.

Might not be done these days but to quote Dr Dieter Fleig, a highly respected world authority on dogs, according to the blurb, successful breeder, exhibitioner, judging in 8 different countries in his book The Technique of Breeding Better Dogs published in 1996 (not a mlion years ago) says re The stud dog "if possible, the very promising young dog is not mated to any bitch, but rather his own Dam, his sister or, if necessary, his half sister. Inbreeding is the surest way to bring to light the qualities or shortcomings of a strain. Why this is so is a thing that geneticists can best explain. The young dog who has proved his worth in this intensely inbred litter will make an interesting mate for many bitches.".

I'm certainly not speaking for all the Labradoodle breeders out there, there are some that I would gladly wring their necks, I have spoken out against their bad practices and would continue to speak out against them but it still doesn't change the fact that there are some genuine, decent Labradoodle breeders out there.

Anyone interested in Doodles please contact the Trust, plenty of advice there about choosing a breeder and rescue.