One Born Every Minute

[FiveGoMadInDorset]

Channel 4 tonight, featuring a lovely young couple from our village.

I've just stared watching - why oh why is the young girl walking around with gas and air and not even using it properly? Is it even hooked up to anything?

Bloody hell SoH, you poor thing.

I had a horrendous labour with DS ending in emcs. Was induced, started contracting and then my waters broke. As soon as my waters went the pain was incredible, and there was no gap between the contractions. The midwife and Dr thought I'd be pushing within the hour - 6 hours later I was only 2cms and begging for an epidural. 20 hours and a decelerating heartbeat later we ended up in theatre because I was still only 3cms dilated - DS' head was jammed into my pelvis and it was making my cervix swell up, not dilate. He was back to back.

Several comments on this thread have really upset me too 'oh I'm sure I was still at home at 2cms'. Bully for you, have a medal

SoH - please do try the counselling, I don't think it's ever too late to try and deal with painful feelings and emotions. I recently had some (not for birth related issues) and was very sceptical but found it incredibly useful.

SoH, you're not a bad person!
Christ, think how many people are traumatised by the dentist! After what you went through it's not suprising you're frightened.

You know, don't you that that lie is V.v rare, and almost certainly wouldn't happen again? I'm sure you do.

SOH, not so long ago the of asynclintic heads came up on the home birth yahoo group. A woman who was in the same position as you at a home birth sorted it out herself. she said something along the line of lying on one side and doing 2 deep crunches and then on all fours and doing the same thing. The midwives had no idea what she was doing but it seemed to have sorted out the baby's presentation and he was born shortly afterwards. The midwives were amazed adn were sure that what she did sorted it out. Because we as a culture has grown so dependent on technology to sort out birth problems, a lot of non intervention skills have been lost to midwifery.

Please don't mistrust your body. It needed a skilled birth attendant (not saying the midwives weren't iyswim) to know that something was not right earlier on, before you became too exhausted and to suggest other things earlier.

I had my own traumatic birth and at times I did not think I would have another child. During that pregnancy I became depressed all over again. You do need to talk it through and like you said with as many people as who will listen.

There is also the birth trauma association of which I believe the lovely lulumama is also a volunteer.

now don't no one quote me on that. i was just an interested reader and like others on the groups, had never heard of this. I may not have even described it correctly=. If you look at this page on spinning babies they go at great length to describe a technique to use even in labour to correct suspected asynclitic heads.

Watched this last night and found Sam very upsetting, for all three of my labours I have been told that based on the machine reading and the midwife feeling my tummy (no internal check) that I wasnt in labour and that I was making a "fuss" about normal cramping or for the last two the cramps from the induction gel. Last time midwife shouted at me "there is no evidence you are in labour!"
With my second and third it wasnt so bad but with my first I believed them and honestly thought that there was something really wrong with me to cause me so much pain and really thought I was going to die. Turns out each time I HAVE been in labour and the first time anyone has admitted that each time is when the I start pushing - they look and oh shock there is a head. It is irritating to do this on a ward or as in the case of my first a CORRIDOR because no one believes you when you say that yes you are in pain. So I really feel for her as although the circumstances were different the looks and comments were the same (I was 20 when I had my first as well although aparently as I was told at the time I looked much younger). I only had my husband there who was great but obviously with the first we both thought I wasnt in labour so he was a little confused what was going on. With my second and third we both just rolled our eyes and ignored them. Will do the same with my fourth - I know it will go the same so there is no point in pretending anyone will listen to you unless you have as one midwife puts it "proper contractions".

BelleDame - he meant his MIL only hugged him when she was pissed.

SoH Thanks! Just remember though, I am not a better person than you. I'm a different one. Erm, a stupid one?

Just to say my waters went very early in labour too. (Well, after about 24hrs actually. But I still had another 22hrs to go after that.) It would seem from what I read last night that a tilted head causes uneven pressure on the membranes which can cause a much earlier than usual release of waters, which goes on to cause the baby to become stuck in an unfavourable position, as you commented.

In hindsight I now wonder about the sanity of not one, but 2 midwives who told me about the ear clearly apparent to them through my fully dilated cervix and told me the best thing was to wait for her to sort herself out. As a non-obstetrically trained lay person I had never heard of many of the things that can cause a labour to run less than smoothly. I know that when I have my second one, although I will be much better informed it will still be impossible for me to know all of the potential troubles that could befall me next time. But You really do hope that the midwives are a bit more clued up. OH was frantic with worry apparently, when they told him I was just having a little sleep as I lay down on the floor after 4 hours of second stage. A little sleep, hmm? I was on an operating table 10 minutes later.

"I was at the family planning place in December and sobbed all over a doctor there who said she'd refer me to a counsellor who specialises in birth trauma. I haven't heard from her. Maybe I should ring. I sort of think it's too late."

I'd say it's not too late. Too late doesn't really come into it as you seem to be 'frozen in time' regarding your traumatic labour and delivery. If you don't seek counselling to help you come to terms with it all you'll still be feeling the same place emotionally in six, 12 or 24 months time.

You owe it to yourself and your DD to do this, so you can move forward and look forward to the good things life will bring you.

SoH - you have to do what you feel is right but would it hurt to try counselling? It might not help but what if it does? You could be free of this pain you carry around.

I was adamant no more babies after I had DS1 by emcs. I had wanted a big family but was quite happy with my decision to only have him afterall. I couldn't risk another experience like that.

I now have 3.

Your DD is still pretty young, there is still time to work through this if deep down you would like to try for another baby. If you don't, then fine.

Just reach out.

Thank you again. And I am sorry- yet strangely heartened in an it's nice not to be alone in this- that others have had the same feelings around birth.

I am a screwed up mess. You see, you're trying to be helpful talking to me about asynclitic release but all I hear is 'well you could have fixed it if only...' which of course says everything about me and nothing about any of you. I knew about presentations, I knew about birthing positions and ofp. I pushed for 6hrs with a stuck baby. I tried side crunches to release her, squats, assisted squats, all 4s, kneeling up, leaning over a ball, sitting on the toilet, sitting up, standing, leaning over a desk. If there was a swinging from the light fitting birth position, I'd have been there. The community midwives tried everything they could think of. I never had an urge to push, not a single one. It was all directed pushing. I tore a muscle and burst all of the blood vessels in my eyes (there are no pictures of me with dd as a newborn because of this).

I shy away from counselling because they can't answer my questions for me. They can't tell me why it happened, if there's something wrong with my pelvis. They can't tell me I did everything possible, they can't undo the feeling of never having given birth yet having a baby. And they can't change me. I assume counselling is designed to discover why you feel a certain way. Well, I'm pretty well clued up on my own flaws. I despise loss of control. I'm teetotal because I could never be drunk, I would never do a bungee jump, I don't like surprises (I sound great fun don't I). I knew that to an extent you couldn't control labour but I read everything I could, I knew the physiology of labour, the hormone reactions, the effect of breathing and hypnosis on pain. I worked hard at it, trying to retain some control over it. But then my contractions were 2.5 minutes long and in the wrong place (I knew they were wrong, I repeated this regularly but I was a first timer, of course they hear 'I can't do this, something's wrong' every day), I knew that when I had no urge to push and no pressure in my bottom and could feel no descent that things werent the way they should be. And I knew where it was heading and it was somewhere I would have to relinquish control. And there's the problem. Me. The sort of person I am and always have been. And I won't change and I used to think, you know, it's okay that I'm not an adrenalin-junkie and I'm happy being a homebird and like familiarity but now I think being the person I am caused that day and that's just something I have to accept.

I've looked at the Birth Trauma website before. It's a heady mix of oddly reassuring and confirmation of the hell that is childbirth. It certainly doesn't help with convincing me to do it again. Which I feel like I have to because I wanted a big family and so did dh and dd deserves it and I should just do it and thank goodness I'm fertile. And I should, I should be grateful. It is selfish of me not to when I can. But I can't. We try discussing it occasionally. It's not pretty.

It's funny how your life turns out isn't it?

I am sorry to hear that SOH. I am deffo not saying, as you know, 'it would have worked if only you did x.' If those things were done, then as you know on a rational level, then a C/S was the best thing. That additionally, is one of the reasons we do need skilled midwifere, to recognise when a woman has had enough and to make her gently understand that a transfer for a c/s is the better alternative to continuing with a natural birth. I am not saying they didn't do that, just that the physical and emotional trauma may be lessened.

You need a lot of gentle care SOH. For me dealing with the trauma was a long process that took turns that suprised me many times. I hope that you find answers to your questions. Look after yourself and expect others to look after you too.

I know it's really hard to judge from the show last night what Sam and her labour were really like. They presented her as young, bratty and a bit of a wuss - but that really could have been down to editing, it's so hard to tell.
I found her attitude to her labour really frightening (especially when she called her baby a 'little bitch') and couldn't work out whether she had just not prepared herself in any shape or form or whether she was experiencing such an extreme of pain that any preparation she had done went straight out the window.
I am due soon with my first, so my views about this might be quite naive and I apologise if they sound silly to women who have been through labour already!
Why did she just lie on her back instead of moving around and walking and trying different positions? Doesn't it hurt more?
Why was she breathing like that in such a panic and using the gas and air so ineffectively?
She didn't seem to be trying ANYTHING to deal with the pain - is that normal?

Maybe the midwives did spend some time trying to tell her what to do but it wasn't shown in the program. Don't you think that it's also the responsibility of the person in labour to know a little in preparation?

Well, she looked absolutely beautiful and serene in the last scene with her new little baby girl - what a gorgeous, gorgeous little thing. I wish her and her man and her new baby all the best and I hope she feels proud.

SOH- I too have many many questions about my DD's birth. So many what if's!
What if had refused Induction?
What if I had refused the drip?
What if she wasnt back to back?
Would it of taken that long?
Why did she get stuck?
What if hadnt declined the section? etc etc etc
Why didnt they tell me she was back to back?- I only found out that at my booking in appointment with number 2 and that they turned her with vonteouse. It does explain a few things but not knowing that meant i had many failure feelings for the past 18mths.

But Ive come to the conclusion that most of them will never be answered as its just impossible to tell.

Being pg again has bought it all back to me. I sympathise with you and just hoping for an easier ride this time round!!

Why did she just lie on her back instead of moving around and walking and trying different positions? Doesn't it hurt more?

Who knows? Maybe she didn't know that she could/was allowed to. Maybe she didn't know that it could make a difference. Maybe walking hurt (it took me 20 minutes to walk down 10 stairs having back to back contractions, it can be paralysing). Maybe her baby was in a position that was actually alleviated by lying down. Maybe she was exhausted.

Why was she breathing like that in such a panic and using the gas and air so ineffectively?

Definitely because she was panicking. It's a stress response to hyperventilate. Maybe also because she wasn't shown how. It might also be because it wasn't working. For g&a to work you have to let it build up. You start taking it at the beginning of a contraction so it works at its peak. In cases like mine where you have no waters and a badly positioned baby, the contractions don't peak. They start at 100% and stay that way for 2.5 minutes when they suddenly stop for 30 seconds and then the same happens again. I can tell you that your natural reaction is to suck and suck and suck in the vain hope that it will at least take some of the edge of. Doesn't work like that but the need to feel like you're doing something/anything is overwhelming.

She didn't seem to be trying ANYTHING to deal with the pain - is that normal?

Well she was vocalising. But again it depends. The crash cs, rapid deterioration of hb, suggests something wasn't quite right. I tried to use hypnobirthing, occasionally successfully, but with the level of pain, no gradual build to it, the sure knowledge that something felt very wrong, you become engulfed by it, consumed by it and when you're honestly convinced you're dying and you just want the baby out so at least you don't both die, the sheer magnitude of the situation means that you can't do anything other than try and live through each contraction.

It is your responsibility to try and prepare for birth and to know what might happen and how you might like to respond to it. But sometimes there is nothing you can do to prepare and you find you have no control at all over the thing that is happening to you.

Thankfully, the majority of labours are not like the ones that will be depicted on a televised, edited, ratings-hungry show.

pigleychez, I hope too that you have an easier time!

SoH - with the counselling, you can have the kind where you trawl through everything to work out how you feel and why you feel it. But it is not the only way.

You can also talk about strategies for managing your feelings, for coming to terms with them, for changing your thought patterns when you are confronted with something which triggers your feelings of anger and self-doubt and all the rest of it.
Yes it is hard work, and the counsellor can't change the facts, but it can be life-changing.

Alibaba, I know, something like CBT instead of a talking therapy. A friend suggested I use phrases like 'I tried my best', 'I cannot control the uncontrollable' but I have this stupid analytical, non trickable part of my brain that says 'ah but does anybody ever try their best? Can anybody ever say anything is absolute? Doesn't man faced with controversy and the seemingly impossible suddenly find strength he didn't know he had?' And what exactly is control? Is it a fallacy? I'd then start reading Sartre and swearing before foolishly watching more channel 4 documentary dirge and having a mini breakdown.

What I need is a little red pill which could switch off that part of my brain.

That sounded dismissive, it wasn't. I'm going to the fpc tomorrow to ask the doctor about that referral.

And repeating to myself 'neither before nor during my labour did I have any Pillow Issues' to focus on the positives.

pigleychez,if you look on the website for the progrtamme you can see clips of other less dramatic births,the one for Penny I would say is probably a good one as it follows her ,still pretty paibful but a good compromise between having a good shout but not panicing IYSWIM

CAn't believe I forgot this was on last night and sat watching football with dh, wonder if it is on E4 again

This documentary has really done some good hasn't it. People have been reminded that labour is bloddy painful (sorry ladies who are pg!) and that things go wrong. We live in a society where we are expected to have it all and do it all, and give birth like amazons in the field before going back into battle, a trim size 8 with straightened hair. Real life isn't like that, most of us have never seen anyone in labour before we experience it, a lot of us can't deal with pain, or don't know how to cope with it, and babies get themselves into difficult positions and have to be removed by c-sections. Giving birth is a powerful, messy, dangerous thing countless women over the centuries have died doing it. Whether we give birth the 'ideal' way or not should all be really proud of ourselves.

SoH it didn't sound dismissive. Well done on taking the decision to go back to the fpc

SoH, could you see counselling as a way of exploring why you feel the way you do and feel unable to get over it in such a way you could consider trying for another baby that you say you would all like?