Is nobody watching the Great ADHD Myth?

[ILikeTrains]

I was expecting to see lots of chatter about this. 1/2hr in - interesting!

ADHD UK have submitted a complaint about the program to Ofcom.

But she talked about a bell curve for each trait and the ADHD diagnosis is based on being at the outer edge of the bell curve of multiple traits at the same time.

Likewise the guy who commented on squirming in your seat, it's not relevant on its own but it is when you can also tick another 35 things in a 40 item list.

I'd like everyone on this thread to declare whether they have a diagnosis or someone close to them has. I doubt if many in this category believe that ADHD isn't real.

That was my childhood in the 60s. I still had, and continue to have, ADHD.

My understanding is that medication removes the increase risk of dementia.

Balanced?

Name me a single expert featured who treats children with ADHD medication. Name me single representative of ADHD UK featured on the program.

Tell me why the fact that the boy experimented on went back onto medication was put up as text after the program had ended and most people would mentally have switched off, like you did presumably.

Oh joy! I’m yet to watch this, but with a DS14 with AuDHD and a DH49 with ADHD I think it’s going to piss me off royally from what’s been said!
we cook most meals from scratch, my DH grew up without screens, had a lifetime of being told he was XYZ / chaotic, undisciplined etc yet he managed 2 degrees and doing his sport at international / world championships level. DS is thankfully now medicated, before meds he was literally wired, struggled with everything, couldn’t entertain team sports, exams, dyslexia crushed his schooling, along with his brain working at hypersonic speeds. Thankfully after years waiting to see a paediatrician he got his diagnosis and meds, it’s helped him so much - he forgot to take them a few months ago and said ‘mum how did I ever cope without meds’ broke my heart it took us so long . He can still become dysregulated if there’s a trigger, which leads to the most violent head banging and ADHD fallout, but that’s infrequent comparatively now. I guess I’ll see whatvthis charlatan says later today … is he another Andrew Wakefield type

If it’s a myth why have I struggled my entire life? If it’s a myth then I want the “true” cause of why I am how I am. I’ve only just been diagnosed, I’m 30 and was diagnosed in April.

That is a fantastic piece of research and one that any reputable commentator on ADHD who was a practising psychiatrist should have known about and referenced.

I'm one of many with rheumatoid arthritis as a comorbity, mentioned in that article.

To be fair to Pemberton, the article on the Mail on Monday about Jason Arday said that he likely had a psychiatric condition, the second word was fantasia, and that these people, when they are exposed and their fabricated world collapses around them very often take their own lives, and warned that care needed to be taken. He was sadly right on that.

I have a brother with severe dyslexia, ADHD and autism and a daughter who I suspect the school will be looking to diagnose with a less severe version of these soon. I myself have a similar personality/capability profile to my daughter so could get a diagnosis if I wanted. I have also taught primary school for many years. I think people exist with an “adhd profile” to greater or lesser extents. If you are like my brother then this will affect your whole life as keeping down a job, keeping house and relationships will be difficult. But he is crazy talented in other ways. If you are me or my daughter then I think environmental changes (like a more flexible schooling system) and self understanding and advocacy are enough to lead a successful life so I am not sure calling us disordered in some way is benefitting anyone other than the school being able to get more funding in. I don’t think ADHD is real in the same way a physically observable disease like cancer is (which is a comparison used by a PP), it’s a convenient bio medical label for people displaying like behaviours. Is this entirely a bad thing? No. But the conversation around it’s socially constructedness shouldn’t be off limits.

I don't think they would. Children have never got places at special school just for being rude to teachers, or hurting other children, or absconding school when things don't go their way.

My DM worked in a Special school in the 80s and the children had conditions like Downs Syndrome, learning delays, physical disabilities, visual or hearing impairments, Cerebral Palsy etc. These children might be accommodated in mainstream now if their parents choose. This is what inclusion is and in most cases it works well. It's not children with disabilities that are causing behaviour problems in schools.

ADHD was rarely diagnosed until a few years ago. Why is it that there is now several children in any one class considered to have ADHD? Personally, I think we are labelling any child that doesn't behave perfectly as having ADHD. If they struggle to sit through power point after power point and complete virtually identical activities after the power point without losing interest they are often considered to have ADHD by school. Combine this type of schooling with a lack of discipline and consequence at home and school, take away time outside playing and making friends and learning how to build relationships and replace with video games and online chat rooms, remove all expectations of good behaviour and replace with adaptions like fidget toys, inappropriate bribes and rewards, parents justifying and excusing the Childs behaviour, and replace a healthy diet with one full of sugar and constant snacks and you have a child showing ADHD type behaviours.

Is it not possible that both things can be true. That ADHD is an actual condition that many people here have mentioned having despite being brought up without screens etc, but the prevalence of screens rigid schooling etc in modern life is pushing some children into ADHD type behaviour that they wouldn't otherwise have? Hence the explosion in diagnosis.

Also for those saying that all these behaviours weren't seen at school years ago - when I was at school we had corporal punishment. Kids were often afraid of teachers and still some kids were exhibiting ADHD type behaviour. Those 'naughty' kids were the ones getting the cane. But I guess it did limit that behaviour a bit through fear, but that isn't a tactic we would recommend now.

I wonder if a lot of the non believers are confusing "it's actually pretty common" with "it isn't a separate condition from a normal distribution of behaviour".

There such a focus on an increase in diagnosis. But life has changed. ADHD in a person who cares for a dairy herd would be a huge advantage. Make that person work in an office and it's a disability.

There were no unruly kids running round pubs in the past because you had to be 14 before you were allowed into a pub until 1995.

Life no longer fits most people with ADHD. It's not that there are more of us, it's that we're more obviously out of our depth trying to live a modern life.

@BadBadCat
I don't think they would. Children have never got places at special school just for being rude to teachers, or hurting other children, or absconding school when things don't go their way.

They did, they were called approved schools.

Attention spans, especially inability to concentrate on any specific task for more than a few minutes is a growing problem. Underlying rates of ADHD and autism have always existed, nobody is questioning that some people have always been neurodiverse, but the explosion in diagnosis needs to be addressed and small screen in our pockets need to be addressed, I see it myself, can barely read a book now, even a full movie is a stretch but had no issues before smartphones

But then why do we consider these people to have a “condition” of some sort? Isn’t it just the case that everyone has strengths and weaknesses and those with this profile struggle more in the world we have built? Perhaps they have evolved for a less controlled environment? I think this about my family (many ADHD, autism, dyslexia diagnoses)… my generation are the first that did school all the way through and went to uni and got desk jobs. All previous generations did outdoor manual work. Do I think my farmer grandad had autism and ADHD? Kind of an hilarious question.

I’m not, my children ate are all adults. However I’m not sure why if I did have a child with ADHD it would make any difference to whether this show was balanced or not? It might make a difference to my personal view, but not to the overall format of the show.

I agree with this and your last sentence, but the discussion has to be balanced.

As a non medicated person who, like Max, learned coping strategies to become what would, I think, be regarded as a successful adult, it irks me to see behaviours like being late for work excused with an ADHD diagnosis. I am pretty certain, for example, that if the result of being late for work was starvation to the point of death, then everyone capable of independently getting to and doing a job could learn not to be late for work.

I'm not sure that we are doing enough to point people in the direction of executive function training, development of coping strategies, etc.

I personally don't think ADHD is a medical brain difference, rather a variation on the normal spectrum of personality and brain function. The problem is modern society. As the population increases life has become more homogenous for us all. We are all expected to fit into the same mould these days. Education has become more rigid. Primary school is far more academically focussed at a younger age than it was. There is less time playing and doing creative activities and sports, lessons are much less differentiated than they were, and don't get me started on Y6 SATs. At secondary everyone is pushed down the GCSE route, there's virtually no room for practical learning or value on non academic subjects. There's no options like there used to be. My parents left school at 14 to pursue apprenticeships in valuable industries such as engineering and tailoring without gaining a single exam certificate. I'm not saying this is what we should return to, but there needs to be return to a more diverse way of learning. (they didn't have ADHD, bad behaviour or learning disabilities BTW and they read and write well)

What I'm saying is, we should value those who have high energy and want to do more physical things, some children can and want to sit still and learn academically, for others it's not the way they are made, both are OK, both are normal. Forcing children into one mould fits all is causing problems, combined with other aspects of modern life it's a big problem.

Never heard of those! If a child did behave in an extreme way they were temporarily excluded during my days at primary school and permanently if they continued. This was rare though. I only remember one child being rude to the teacher at primary school and his mum came to collect him. He didn't return for a week. Now, we have several children with behaviour issues in every class. I think I would remember children tipping over chairs and swearing at teachers if it happened, but it didn't.

My dad has ADHD (very late diagnosed) and basically got kicked out of school in the 1950’s for being so “naughty”. I have ADHD, my youngest has ADHD although we have the inattentive type so go under the radar when compared to my dad. I can absolutely assure you that although modern society doesn’t help, ADHD is not a modern construct and had always existed.

It’s interesting you say that. I’m 48 and can clearly remember kids who, in retrospect, had some level of neurodivergence. But they were the naughty kids who spent most of the day sent outside the classroom, or the thick kids who coloured in rather than learning to read. They were the ones who drifted out of the school system once they hit secondary. I wonder where they are now. Probably in prison or struggling with addiction. Is that what you want for our “naughty” or “thick” kids?

I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was sixty. It made sense of a lot of my risk-taking behaviours when I was younger.

But when I was at school - during the 60s and 70s, it was the era of getting your legs slapped if you stepped out of line. Lessons were very structured, you sat down and listened because you were afraid of the consequences (ie, getting a slap). While I don't advocate slapping children, I think that the very rigid structure of schooling - even right through secondary school - helped me and a lot of my ND friends to learn. There was zero tolerance for any bad behaviour and so the environment was quieter, more orderly and this all helped. Schools these days seem to be structured in such a way that they are intolerable even for the NT pupil.

You are saying the same as I said above about fit to modern society. It doesn't mean the condition doesn't exist as a condition and if you had it I think you would understand that.

What I'm saying is, we should value those who have high energy and want to do more physical things, some children can and want to sit still and learn academically, for others it's not the way they are made, both are OK, both are normal. Forcing children into one mould fits all is causing problems, combined with other aspects of modern life it's a big problem.

This is fine as far as it goes, but you simply can't live a modern life any more with control over executive function. You can't bank without using apps, you can't get onto apps without going through security processes, you can't book a doctor's appointment without going through written triage, you can't pay a bus fare in cash, you can't apply for a job on the till in a shop without filling in forms online, you can't get even trade jobs without exams because of the health and safety qualifications now needed even to lay bricks.

The need for executive function in modern society is relentless. People without it cannot live independent lives.

Exactly the same experience, and I agree.

Same at our house too! My son cannot sit still long enough to watch tv.

He doesn’t have access to any other screen time (no tablets or small devices), and spends most of his day outside. ADHD certainly isn’t a myth in our household.