The Tony Blair Story

[mumofoneAloneandwell]

Late night with dd - I’ve put it on in the background on +1

is anyone watching? 👀

Not yet, but the day is young!

Or at least in will be in two minutes time!

Too true - I am walking distance to my local M&S Special Blue Pants proprietor!

Apparently they are high waisted and come in shades of blue: https://www.marksandspencer.com/3-pack-pure-cotton-briefs/p/clp60456927?color=BLUEMIX&extid=ps_ps-pla-pmax_ggl_mw_ch__-UK-_-_bau&cq_src=google_ads&cq_cmp=20076019146&cq_con=&cq_term=&cq_med=pla&cq_plac=&cq_net=x&cq_plt=gp&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=19965629217&gbraid=0AAAAAD7g6bQ3qA2TGZDZbfdOQ0yfcHFkx&gclid=Cj0KCQiA49XMBhDRARIsAOOKJHZ8qEzx1VHgFCIywLJFdk7SiJTFnbLTG3o6vzhMjghLfeDBChDtMoEaAqf3EALw_wcB

The men who do most of the abusing.

Fascinating series.

I thought it was interesting that he was so honest about the fact that he was never going to give anything other than a politician's answer. I guess we'll never know what he really thinks and feels about anything. Least of all Iraq. It kind of makes sense that he has to stick to saying that it was the right thing...it would be hard to turn around to the families of those that lost their lives too say "oops, that was a mistake".

It was interesting to see his kids talking about him. Was it only 3 of them that appeared, or did I merge the older two into one person. I found them all quite likeable really.

Clinton's contributions were interesting too. Though he certainly looked frail.

I'd have liked to hear from Gordon Brown. I assume they approach him and he chose not to be a part of it, but he was such an important figure in that era. It would also have been interesting to hear from some of his political opponents.

A very interesting watch. I'm left feeling ss ambivalent about him as I did before. So many great strengths and he did so much good... but Iraq was unforgivable.

When did Blair's kids contribute? Is that in the final episode, shown tonight?

Euan and Kathryn spoke in the first episode.

In episode 3 Blair does a very good take down of Nigel Farage at the EU. Blair had uncharacteristic anger in his voice, he was always very pro EU.

I agree that the contributions from Cherie and the children were fascinating, they seemed to love him and have a closeness to him but he is sort of …… unknowable.

Iraq was a mess but I find it interesting that people were baying for the UK and the US to go into Syria and oust Assad. They didn’t and got hell for it but no American or British lives were lost. I can understand the upset of the families of dead servicemen and women, but war is now rarely as cut and dry as WW2 good vs evil and unfortunately in the army you are at the bidding of whatever is happening in the world.

It seems that in the Middle East the best course of action for any Western leader is to do nothing, but that may not be great for the millions suffering there today (see the crackdown in Iran)

Would we all be supportive of ground troops in Ukraine - that seems a fairly straightforward good vs evil scenario to me but I suspect that any PM who gave this the green light would pay a huge price for the subsequent loss of British lives. As a nation, we no longer want to fight ‘foreign’ wars.

If Blair didn’t support the US, then he would have torpedoed the ‘special relationship’ and maybe that wouldn’t have been a bad thing but we will never know. I suspect he really believed in what he was doing.

Good points, @Scenty . As usual, it's a complicated situation. Your point about Syria is very apt.

Yes, I enjoyed that bit.

I thought it was a bit sad at the end when he never thought there would be a time when we'd leave the EU.

I know, incredibly sad.

It was an interesting watch that made me reflect on my evaluation of Blair. I will never be convinced that the Iraq war was the right thing to do, and I will never be able to forgive him for making that decision.

But when I look at the state of our politics and politicians now, it is depressing to see how much further we have descended into the abyss since that time.

Even Dubya looks quite statesmanlike by comparison to the current POTUS.

Good points, @MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack - we were saying that about Dubya upthread! How articulate and witty he seemed.
Also, how much was achieved by the Blair governments.

I think Blair tried to temper America’s responses. But had to be seen to be an ally. And somehow ended up on that road.

I don’t judge him for that even though I think it was the wrong decision. I believe he was trying his best.

Cameron I do judge for the Brexit vote and then for disappearing in the aftermath.

Absolutely. I think that's partly why the current Labour government has been so disappointing to many of us. We remember the very real difference that Labour made when they were last in power, and we had been hoping to see something comparable.

But of course, we are living in a very different world now. Post austerity. Post pandemic. Post Brexit. And in the midst of a monumental breakdown in the international order as well as a global trend away from democracy and towards fascism. So our expectations were probably always unrealistic.

We need strong leadership now more than ever, but we haven't got it.

It was a radical programme and made significant social and economic changes.
I thought the first programme conveyed that really well.
Like you, @MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack I lament What's happened.

It is what's yet to happen that concerns me most... the direction that we seem to be heading in is terrifying.

Exactly. They said that in the programme. They knew America would react to 9/11 and the concern was by how much they'd overreact. Being close to Bush was the attempt to steer or modify them. Instead, Blair seemed to get caught up in trying to prove that the UK was America's best friend rather than a guiding ally. So maybe he really did believe in the Iraq war. And Saddam was a complete monster.

I'd love someone really informed to present a counterfactual on how events may have played out, globally, if we hadn't supported America. Would Brexit have happened as we'd have been clearer that our alliance is to Europe more than America?

Yes that’s an interesting question, things could have turned out very differently.

ep 2 showed footage of people being hit on their way to being shot. It was horrific. IMO something should e been done prior but it took 9/11 to force that.

Its such a complicated situation that there isn’t a right decision.

I think Brexit wouldve happened. The press and government blamed everything on the EU.

Plus Putins meddling.

It was a massive mistake to enlarge the EU - that's what caused Brexit. I'm not sure things would have panned out much differently if we hadn't joined the US in Iraq. I think the US would have gone in anyway. 7/7 might not have happened, though.

Your last paragraph is interesting. And I think, yes he probably did get on board with the Iraq invasion to ensure the "special relationship" remained intact. If only he could have known that in two decades Trump was going to potentially nuke it anyway, depending on how the wind blows when he gets up each day.

It doesn't seem worth all the loss of life. Same with Biden pulling out of Afghanistan. Nearly 500 British service men and women lost their lives for nothing.

I wasn’t paying much attention. What happened?

I liked being part of the EU, the only thing I wasn’t keen on was the euro. But I can’t articulate why.