SPOILERS BRIDGERTON SEASON 4 - Benedict’s story

[IWantToHibernate]

I couldn’t see a thread so thought I would start one.

The first 4 episodes drop on Netflix tomorrow (29th Jan). We will then need to wait until 26th February for the other 4.

We all know it’s not a realistic period drama but it’s great escapism and I’m looking forward to binging the first 4 eps.

My great grandad lost a hand in the war and was a butler

I agree it's my favourite next to series one. I think there's chemistry between the leads and the discussion of pinnacles takes us back to series 1 amd the Duke having the talk with Daphne.

I totally agree. Its fabulous!!!

The only one of the books I've tried reading is 'When He Was Wicked' (the Francesca/Michael one) because I thought the set-up sounded slightly more interesting than the others. No offence to anyone who likes them (horses for courses etc), but personally I found it so badly written I gave up after a couple of pages. To me there's an irony in some of the book fans complaining about Michael's transformation into Michaela, because I wasn't finding him believable as a male character at all in the book - very very clearly created by a woman.

Since I didn't stick with it, I don't know exactly what happens - but thinking about it, there also seems something quite odd about book fans complaining that the Michaela change means that the story can't address infertility. Surely that's pretty clearly something that a same-sex couple in the Regency period would be dealing with? And something the show can address with Francesca and John anyway? I assume the complaint is more that they now can't address finding fertility with a second love when you've struggled in a previous relationship? Which, while I'm very sorry for anyone who goes through the hard part of it, seems like something that would be more of a niche experience anyway?

I don’t think anyone is suggesting the books are high literature. I read them at a very bleak time.

Ha absolutely not, it’s like eating junk food

I think it’s the repetition and soppiness in the books that I struggle with. It’s why I really like this season as it’s cuts through all that and I do find their banter very enjoyable by contrast. I know some people are complaining that it’s too slow and nothing’s happening but I’m enjoying all the Benedict and Sophie scenes, especially in episodes 3 and 4.

I have just finished watching Queen Charlotte's story, I loved it, so moving at the end.

Its nice just to watch escapism tv. I am now lost as to what to watch next whilst waiting for part 2!!

Lady Chatterley's Lover. Also on Netflix.

Similar-esque to Bridgerton but set after World War.

Ooh, will check that out, thank you.

@Kirschcherries@CaragianettEin the book Sophie repeats ad nauseam that she will not make the same mistake as her mother in getting pregnant by an employer or any kind of improper relationship. She is absolutely terrified of ending up like her mother and determined to be a paragon of rectitude.

Does anyone know historically if it was a total no no for these men to marry lower class women such as maids? Would it really be such a big deal, if the man was already wealthy couldn’t he just choose a love match?

No. Absolutely not. Even mistresses would be from the middle/upper classes rather then than maids. Maids were fair game for abuse/rape and exploitation.

A man would be cast out of polite society for marrying the staff.

No, even marrying a lower middle class woman would have been socially unacceptable - if she or her family was connected to trade or 'smelled of the shop' even money didn't always make a woman from another social class accepted in society and a servant would have been even less of a possibility.

There was probably more than a touch of the Epsteins over the whole society, where men with money and power were pretty much able to do what they wanted, women of all classes were seem as resources (in their own class for heirs, for fortune, for a chatelain, from the demi monde/courtesan class sex, novelty, entertainment and companionship, and the lower/servant classes would be seen as fair game/there to serve and to be paid off or threatened if they gave trouble. Obviously this is a generalisation, I am sure there were many more honourable men, who were not exploitative, had ethics, but the society in general was set up by, controlled by and run for the benefit of the richest men and their indulgences.

Plus ca change...

It was a total no no. There may have been occasions where it happened (I’m not aware of any, but maybe there is).

Apart from everything else, usually the woman’s family would need to provide a dowry in those times and a maid’s family could hardly provide one that would match the nobility.

Yes, and ‘new money’ was even looked down upon, the nobility who had been titled for centuries looked down on people who had only been titled for a couple of generations. Or made their riches recently.

SPOILERS IF YOU HAVEN’T READ THE BOOK OR DON’T WANT TO KNOW

In the book Violet ends up blackmailing Araminta to lie that Sophie is a relative of the late Earl (rather than an illegitimate daughter), so Benedict can marry her. So even though his mother and family do allow it in the end, they are still conscious about shielding the family’s image and don’t want it known that he marries an illegitimate woman / servant (even if her father was an earl).

Yes, and ‘new money’ was even looked down upon, the nobility who had been titled for centuries looked down on people who had only been titled for a couple of generations. Or made their riches recently.

This is something I have occasionally wondered about with Mr Bingley in P&P.

He's obviously a man of leisure.

Perhaps his money was made acceptably?

I thoroughly enjoyed S4 part 1, especially the fourth and final episode.

Agree with PPs that Violet's got a great storyline, and fabulous outfits! I think she might even be the best dressed so far and is probably having the most fun 🍑

I don't care what (some of) you said; I thought the staircase scene was hot.

I'm not entirely sure why people are so shocked and disgusted by Benedict asking her to be his mistress. As PPs have pointed out, it would be social suicide to marry a maid; even though he likes to be a bit of a "rebel", that's a step too far. She hasn't actually told him that she's the illegitimate daughter of an earl; I don't know if that makes her slightly more socially acceptable than being the legitimate daughter of a maid and the male equivalent in class terms.

The books are appallingly badly written but I did read a few of them and definitely enjoyed this book the most. It's just much more interesting than the other stories. Eloise's story is quite good too. It'll be interesting to see if her character finally develops because she's been very consistently annoying so far.

Interestingly, by the late 1800s marrying below your class was seen as ok.
Why you ask
Well, the upper/aristocracy classes started to lose money and at risk of becoming poor. They needed money, lots of money.

Suddenly marrying below rank, untitled and 'new' money women wasn't an issue.
The only women who had lots of money were American.

Famously Winston Churchill parents were married for this reason. His dad was Lord something or other, with no money. His mum was from Brooklyn with a very rich father.
They were engaged 3 days after meeting, but the actual wedding ceremony took ages to take place because the parents were arguing over the dowry and money.

As PPs have pointed out, it would be social suicide to marry a maid;

Assuming that they get married, even when who she is & why she was working as a maid is resolved, it still might not be considered a suitable match socially?

The book explains how they get round it. It’s Bridgerton where every story ends in the couple getting married, so it’s a given they will.

We are told that Bingley came from a respectable family in the north of England but that the family fortune had come from trade. So interestingly the Bennet family are one step up the social ladder as landed gentry.

We don't really know how acceptable the Bingleys were in high society as we don't really see them there - all we know is that the very acceptable Mr Darcy, with his direct link to an earl, liked Charles whom he met at school. My guess is that he is really the only member of the ton with whom they have much of an acquaintance and so why the Bingley ladies are so keen to have him and/or Georgiana marry into their family. Georgette Heyer novels usually include a mother and daughter team who are "skirmishing" on the edges of the ton and I have always imagined the Miss Bingley's to fall into this category - attend the occasional ball on the Darcy coat tails but not necessarily given vouchers for Almacks.

Yes true-just because Darcy & Bingley are friends it doesn't mean that they move in the same circles.

I've got a lot going on at the moment so it might just be me, but I've found the series so far a bit disjointed - I've rewound a few times to see if I've missed something but it doesn't flow.