Celeb Traitors #4 - Will the Faithful ever find a Traitor?

[CarefulN0w]

Carrying on the discussion.

i like Joe M
he went to the same schools as my dc - so i am a fan.

but in this game he is becoming quite outspoken, which may be his downfall
i predict a win for Lucy, watch the quiet ones

Good point actually!

Indeed. DS has ADHD and he can very much lie (whether he's any good at it's another matter though)

'Why does it matter that Cat referenced her asd and adhd? That's her life to reference if she wants to. And in the context of a game based on deceit, she can choose to be deceitful when put on the spot. Or she may have simply been honest.'

Very well said. The pearl clutching about Cat using her own personal info in the way she chooses has been quite something

You’re totally right she can say what she likes. And the people who hear it can think what they like too.

I think she’s using the ND or disability card as an excuse to control what other people can or can’t say. I’d say the same if she or anyone else referenced their race or gender too. Particularly where it’s something that a lot of people try to fight for equality over, using it out of context to try to silence other people undermines everything they say is important to them.

I don't really think so. She didn't volunteer the information unprovoked. She was challenged, and defended herself over that particular challenge of being tired, nothing else. I find being around people exhausting and have to retreat into myself to recharge my batteries, so I can entirely sympathise with her.

Whether she's using her napping time to eavesdrop on other people's conversations is another matter, and she is a Traitor after all...

I think if Cat and Alan do get enough people on side to be able to bring up Jonathan at the round table, people would quite quickly turn on her afterwards as they’ve already been saying she’s a bit quiet and under the radar. That’s assuming Jonathan doesn’t go on the defensive and manages to turn the spotlight back on her or Alan at the time. I think it will take them longer to suss out Alan.

Cat needs to not be the leader going after Jonathan. She needs to be a semi reluctant follower saying ‘well yes, big dog theory, I thought Stephen but maybe the theory is still right so it could be Jonathan… I dunno”

although I think Alan is going to be the first traitor out after the forgotten shield from the last episode.

I think it’s interesting that the departees are beginning to name Cat more regularly as a Traitor on uncloaked. That suggests to me that whilst the faithfuls have JR pegged as the most likely traitor, Cat is now in the mix. It will be interesting to see how she plays her next day.

Did anyone see Stephen Fry on Saturday Kitchen? He suggested that the game was originally thought up by an academic who posited that a small group of people with knowledge, would be successful against a larger group of people without the same information. Mafia and Werewolf came from this.

I think she’s using the ND or disability card as an excuse to control what other people can or can’t say. I’d say the same if she or anyone else referenced their race or gender too
That's one hell of a leap to make on the basis of a single interaction, especially this particular interaction. You believe simply referencing one's neurotype, one's race or one's sex once signifies an individual is playing a minoritiy "card"? She made no other comment other than to offer a totally feasible explanation to counteract an accusations from SF.
Your interpretation of that being controlling is baffling to me. It suggests you feel awkward about conversations involving reference to disability, neurology, sex, race, ethnicity etc.
I fully accept that it's possible that all of those aspects can be weaponised if an individual chooses to do so, but that would need to be evidenced over time. Even in a tv gameshow.

I don’t think Cat is as good as some people on here think she is. She has no strategy and if they were all like her it would be very boring telly. But if she was a faithful on the normal traitors she would coast to the final like so many of the dull ones do. the fact she doesn’t seem to suspect anyone apart from jumping on the others ‘big dog’ theory when anyone asks her, will raise suspicions in the end, surely?

Currently there is 6 Faithful and 3 Traitors but there is about to be a murder. If the Faithful don’t find a traitor in the next round table there will then be another murder and it will be down to 3F and 3T. If the traitors vote for the same person at the last RT the only way a traitor will be out will be if there is a double tie and another chest of chance which the traitor loses.

so basically the next round table is the last chance for the faithful to be in with a chance of winning. It’s time for them to coalesce whether that’s to go after Jonathan or Alan after his shield slip up.

I'm doubtful Cat or Alan will win, as there are questions over them so they're bound to be banished, even last minute. The players know they need to get 3 traitors so surely you'd just keep banishing?

Though it's not ideal to get to the final with another traitor.

It would be interesting to see them get through (I think JR is next for banishment) and if they spilt or steal.

It's been a bit disappointing not to see more in terms of traitors being caught, back stabbing, and recruitment - but we may get a bit of this yet!

Absolutely loving every episode. The traitor reveals on Uncloaked are gold.

Pretending to be a boring faithful in itself is a strategy. The only person who has suspected her is Nick and Stephen.
Stephen was shut down at the round table, so maybe the rest of them won't pursue Cat for a while, because of that?

I've said this before, but Joe needs to make the two shield coincidences connection to get Alan and Jonathan banished in quick succession.

If Alan is banished because someone brings up his shild slip up at the round table, then Jonathan will follow byt the same logic, provided Joe isn't murdered or recruited!

I think Celia will name all 3 Traitors if she gets banished or murdered.

I think it’s interesting that the departees are beginning to name Cat more regularly as a Traitor on uncloaked. That suggests to me that whilst the faithfuls have JR pegged as the most likely traitor, Cat is now in the mix. It will be interesting to see how she plays her next day

Agreed. She must be in the mix and the next step by the faithfuls will be fascinating. I dont think it will help Cat to change her manner significantly because that will probably cause more heat. Surely they'll get one of the 3 at the next round table?

The editors and producers spend weeks in post production creating what they think is the most interesting narrative for the audience. The ratio of conversations screened to conversations had must be minute. Unseen footage must tell of a hundred other intrigues and events!

So along with me being ableist you “suggest” I’m not able to hold adult conversations now either. Right.

If you have to attack the person not their point, you don’t have a valid argument to make.

I disagree .
When the traitors have the secret meetings , I notice that Cat is the traitor who usually comes up with reasons as to why a particular faithful should be killed .
You say she doesn’t have a strategy , but many of the contestants don’t have a strategy .I think she is a brilliant traitor

That’s very true, and I hadn’t worked through the maths. It should be easier to pick off the traitors now - 3 out of 8 is good odds if they stop and look at the mistakes. I won’t be shocked mind if the faithful ignore the evidence and voted for people like Kate for being shifty.

Agree with this re Cat, she has had an easy ride so far and not really had to defend herself unlike the likes of Jonathan or David that are still in.

The shield slip up may catch out Alan if they remember!

OK @Lionfisher . Tell me how you justify accusing Cat of playing a minoritiy 'card' and trying to control what can be talked about when you have only heard her give one simple, personal explanation for something? How is that Cat being controlling? It's only potentially controlling if somewhere there's a rule around not talking about disability, sex race etc. If that rule doesn't exist, and Cat didn't request anyone to stop or do anything different, then there isn't a problem. There was no evidence of implied awkwardness on Cat's part which could be taken as controlling. Her intonation and body language in the only clip we saw were open and uncritical.
But you believe what she said was problematic.

I get that you think accusing her of playing the disability card is the same as speculating on the motives behind any of the actions of any of the players. But I fundamentally disagree. It's not that I think it never happens. It's that I think the reverse is far more common and far more damaging.

Many ND individuals are afraid to explain and advocate for themselves because of the fear they will be judged as you are judging Cat. It doesn't matter that this is a game show and we're commenting on a forum, it's a little slice of life.

Interesting that people think Cat is a poor traitor when both Alan and Jonathan have made shield slipups.
But at the same time she is sly because she wants to throw Jonathan under the bus.
She's also a liar but cannot lie because of her ADHD.
And then she is playing a disability card by using her disability to evade suspicion. no one objected to Charlotte pretending to be Welsh or Leanne pretending to be a nail tech or Wilfrid crying crocodile tears about his children.

The game is Traitors. Not Miss Congeniality. Anything goes and anything should.

I think Cat has more than held her own with Jonathon & Alan so far.

FWIW I’m choosing to ignore disablist comments.

For a moment I thought you thought Charlotte Church was pretending to be Welsh 🤣

To clarify, Charlotte from last season!