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Telly addicts

Eurovision 2025 - After Thoughts

413 replies

RedToothBrush · 18/05/2025 01:05

Austria's JJ won with Wasted Love

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19
GreenApplesRedApplesYellowApples · 18/05/2025 13:36

RedToothBrush · 18/05/2025 13:09

But Remember Monday DID play the game. They've been touring around promoting it. There's a really good interview with them by Graham Norton on iPlayer where they say just how many places they've been and how their musical theatre experience has been invaluable because they were used to doing so many shows back to back and that's what it was like promoting the song.

They had taken the tact of trying to be 'out there' and stand out with an arrangement which was odd in order to a crowd of people who all were trying to stand out. It's written in a major key rather than minor - a major key song hasn't won in 20 years. (Sam Ryder was also major key). I would argue that in some respects they DID get it right because it did work relatively well with the jury and that's where we've failed a lot in recent years. We got the most number of points we've had in 12 years bar Sam Ryder. It's just that the votes were much more spread out between countries this year.

Even within our house we gave points to 23 countries this year, whereas it was a dozen last year. It's just that our weird arrangement and shit lyrics for our entry just didn't gel with the fans. I personally LIKE the jury/public system because of this. It means you are rewarded for pushing the musical boundaries - you have to be bothered popular with the public AND have musical talent to win really.

The image in this post is the number of individual jurors (not the entire panel) who ranked each country 12 points. This breakdown is actually not that far off the public vote positions, which is interesting to see. The obvious exception being you know who. It's just that the jurors votes are collectivised. This actually makes it fairer and more evenly spread in the final score - the public will tend to only vote for one country rather than the ten the jury does. If we went public vote only for the final, it'd be even more brutal and I think it would harm the contest over all. The public get to eliminate in the semis anyway so the winner will always effectively be a 'public choices' rather than dictated by the jury as a result of that (the semis are now public vote only).

Every year we have the same debate over political voting. And yet we do have different winners every year. And we know when our song is shit. I don't get this mentality of expecting other countries to vote for our song when we know it's not as good as other entries! We wouldn't give 12 points for our own song even if we could if we were judging on the song! We just don't want to admit this.

Re Israel:
It’s such a shame that this has made Eurovision uncomfortable
This sums it up in a nutshell for me and why I didn't want to go again this year, after last. It was uncomfortable

Genuinely the crowd in the venue last year were there for the song contest. I do not see it being different this year. We did it on the cheap but a lot of people spend a fortune on the premium shows and go to multiple shows. There was indifference to Israel being there for the majority last year. It was a really small minority booing, but that minority were loud and really ruined it and it was deeply uncomfortable. There were also about the same number of people who were cheering and clapping.

Most people say there just not knowing what the hell they should do. It was four minutes of sheer awkwardness and an appalling atmosphere. In the run up to the show there had been protests around Malmö and there were Palestine flags everywhere. Again the atmosphere in the city was tense as a result and the city organiser didn't have a clue how to handle it. We came across a number of situations in the two days we were there which we didn't like and lack of information in English did not help the situation.

Keep in mind we had booked flights and hotels in early November so were committed that early not really understanding how events would play out - and most people who went would have done similar (otherwise they wouldn't have a hotel room). Most there were complete neutrals on the subject - they aren't 'leftie extremists' in the stereotype that has been pushed.

So people saying that comments about Israel and not being happy about Israel being in the competition are 'anti Jewish' just don't have a clue.

It's the fact it's dominating the contest just so much and affecting the artists willing to take part in the contest. The organisation of getting people to vote for Israel who don't even want to watch the show is also gaulling. I don't mind them getting points, it's just that the points they are getting are not reflective of the performance because of this. And it's becoming frustrating and putting the entire future of the contest at risk.

Had Israel won it would have caused so many issues. The UK government advice is against all travel to Israel at present. (I have double checked that this morning). Most airlines in Europe are no longer flying to Israel ATM either. That would have raised so logistical questions straight from the start. If they had said it was too dangerous to hold it there like Ukraine (which I can't see the Israelis agreeing with anyway) you still would have the prospect of getting another country to host it on behalf of Israel. I'm not sure there are too many countries that politically could do that. Not even the UK. The Spanish broadcaster put an screen up about Palestine during their show, so I would question whether they would enter next year in these circumstances - remember Spain is one of the Big 5 so this really matters.

I don't think a lot of people realise these issues. The lost of one of the big five would be catastrophic. If you can't get the fans there from around the world then you lose a lot of the magic of the contest. And you lose a huge amount of revenue for the host city from visitors and you have issues over the lost of revenue from ticket sales.

The EBU already is facing challenges over the cost of the contest. Many of the eastern European countries who have withdrawn from the contest have done so because it's becoming so expensive to send an act - there's the entry fee and the cost of the hotels alone, never mind the cost of the staging. Romania self funded himself last year I believe and went out at the semi. He had very simple staging and it showed against others. I think there's a question mark about Czechia now because they sent an established artist who was one of the best known and had high hopes for him and he didn't get through to the semi. The talk is they won't enter next year as a result.

So comments about Graham Norton sounding 'anti Israel' or moderate indifferent neutral Eurovision diehards being 'anti Semitic' blah blah blah need to be seen through the lens of understanding the impact Israel winning would have on the contest they really really love. The context really matters.

The abuse I got personally last night on MN was appalling. I had deliberately avoided the subject all night until the results.

I really didn't like the Austrian entry. It's curious it didn't get a single 12 points from the public. That's really unusual for a winner. It's technically great though so I also can't argue with it being the winner even though I don't personally like it.

I'm sure Austria will do a good job next year. I sincerely hope we aren't revisiting the same subjects after the show AGAIN next year though.

364* days to go...
(I know it's held on different days/weekends).

The abuse you got yesterday was the most appalling I've ever seen on Mumsnet. EVER. And being as I am a Veteran user who has sat through many a seriously heated thread, that is saying something!

I will say your post highlights something obvious though. And that is that the Palestinian anti-war supporters have missed a BIG trick twice now. Instead of wasting time protesting, they should have all been on their phones voting for Israel last night.

The proverbial shit would have really hit the fan. I don't know what on earth the pro-Israel lot were thinking, because if they had won, the ramifications would not have worked to their favour and it would have potential completely destroyed the ESC.

Thank god for them Austria's singing on the night was so good.

GreenApplesRedApplesYellowApples · 18/05/2025 13:38

That said. There's always next year!

RedToothBrush · 18/05/2025 13:40

GreenApplesRedApplesYellowApples · 18/05/2025 13:36

The abuse you got yesterday was the most appalling I've ever seen on Mumsnet. EVER. And being as I am a Veteran user who has sat through many a seriously heated thread, that is saying something!

I will say your post highlights something obvious though. And that is that the Palestinian anti-war supporters have missed a BIG trick twice now. Instead of wasting time protesting, they should have all been on their phones voting for Israel last night.

The proverbial shit would have really hit the fan. I don't know what on earth the pro-Israel lot were thinking, because if they had won, the ramifications would not have worked to their favour and it would have potential completely destroyed the ESC.

Thank god for them Austria's singing on the night was so good.

I think you are actually right on all scores.

Next year I hope the fans will wake up and realise they have to actually vote...

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TheCatsTongue · 18/05/2025 13:40

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 18/05/2025 12:33

I think that it would help remedy the politics if the winner either didn't host, or didn't host immediately - with a caveat as above that a country cannot be at war in its own territory or with an adjacent territory to win.

But it could be really great to just have countries host as a result of bids. I've always really wondered about the cost element, because people say it's expensive to host, but Liverpool was absolutely heaving, we stayed in Southport and it was still £££. And we stayed in Turin for a week, probably spent about £2k all in? It must boost GDP more than it costs.

Well it got so expensive for Ireland to host they sent Father Ted so that they'd lose.

The irony being that Father Noel now does the commentary.

Piggywaspushed · 18/05/2025 13:41

That outburst was scheduled and staged by a visitor it seems, who outed themselves as many things.

It was an awful, vicious personal attack (and also horrifically Islamaphobic).

Unwarranted RTB, totally.

No one should have to tread on eggshells on a Eurovision thread . But this is where we are , it seems.

EasternStandard · 18/05/2025 13:46

I think the U.K. can do well with the right singer. Sam Ryder did very well. People will vote for us if we do something better.

Those countries that backed Yuval in that screen shot, very compelling, I’m glad she did well.

Overall we have good singers here, Idk why we seem to not get them across the line.

cardboardvillage · 18/05/2025 13:48

Remember Monday are too good for Europe. They like random stuff

Hoe did Italy get no5?

OublietteBravo · 18/05/2025 13:57

Last night’s vitriol was insane and totally unwarranted. Israel sent a fairly average ballad which was sung quite nicely. Not being keen on it (it wasn’t in my personal top 10) is completely normal. Reading it as a sign that anyone who preferred other songs is a hardcore antisemite is deeply odd. After all, I didn’t like Austria or Estonia either. Other people did. That’s fine. And normal. I’m sure lots of people didn’t love Albania and France and Sweden. I did. That’s also fine. People have different tastes. They just do. There is nothing sinister about that. What I will say is that the extreme polarisation around Israel is making the ESC less enjoyable. That’s a real shame.

placemats · 18/05/2025 14:02

Have just skimmed through all the threads on last night, was at a Eurovision party last night which was brilliant, but no time to post.

Thanks @RedToothBrush for the seamless continuation. Picturing you now heading into Manchester with speakers on bass and windows down 😅

Thank the ever loving feck Austria won, it was incredibly tense viewing. I liked the song but it wasn't my favourite. Latvia was.

Next year either the UK or Ireland will win it. 🤭

sadandpmsing · 18/05/2025 14:04

OublietteBravo · 18/05/2025 10:55

I’m not sure we’d have won. Both Sweden and Spain had strong songs too. Personally I think Spain would’ve won.

Well we came second and beat all those countries, so yes, we would have won.

OublietteBravo · 18/05/2025 14:17

sadandpmsing · 18/05/2025 14:04

Well we came second and beat all those countries, so yes, we would have won.

We were only 7 points ahead of Spain (and 28 points ahead of Sweden). Ukraine got 439 points from the televote (that’s more than the total number of points Austria got this year). I maintain any of those 3 could have won 2022 if the geopolitical situation had been different. (Spain got 45 points more than UK in the televote and 53 points less than UK in the jury vote. Sweden got 3 points less than UK in the televote and 25 points less than UK in the jury vote. It was really close between those 3 counties).

GreenApplesRedApplesYellowApples · 18/05/2025 14:21

WillimNot · 18/05/2025 08:44

About time we stopped getting involved. The BBC put a huge amount of money into it, and for what? For Europe to take the piss out of us.
It's long ceased to be a song contest. It's a political boot kicking exercise.
The girls were amazing and the song was reminiscent of Abba and the pop we used to get. They also had great staging, energy and unlike most of the others their costumes didn't look like strippers.
Sorry but enough is enough.
I also can't understand how Israel remains a contestant yet they banned Russia over Ukraine? And it should return to actually being European countries.

The girls had a couple wobbly moments where the singing went of kilter. Watch it again. You've always got to remember that many people only hear the singing, they are at work, or at a venue listening or listening on the radio at home and they don't see the acts on television. The girls or it might have just been one of them, struggled. I don't know why or if something happened. I didn't see the semi's so I don't know if it was a one off. Maybe nerves.

Then for screen viewers, the staging was extremely lack lustre. A big chandelier on stage. That's it. The costumes were like anything you'd see at pantomime season.

It could all have come together much better and we'd have pulled some decent public votes.

RedToothBrush · 18/05/2025 14:31

GreenApplesRedApplesYellowApples · 18/05/2025 14:21

The girls had a couple wobbly moments where the singing went of kilter. Watch it again. You've always got to remember that many people only hear the singing, they are at work, or at a venue listening or listening on the radio at home and they don't see the acts on television. The girls or it might have just been one of them, struggled. I don't know why or if something happened. I didn't see the semi's so I don't know if it was a one off. Maybe nerves.

Then for screen viewers, the staging was extremely lack lustre. A big chandelier on stage. That's it. The costumes were like anything you'd see at pantomime season.

It could all have come together much better and we'd have pulled some decent public votes.

Our view here was that two of the girls could really sing. The third struggled in places and was a much weaker singer. But she got through it.

The televised performance on Thursday was better.

Don't forget the televised final is actually the 6th show for all the performers (if you are in the second semi, it's the sixth show in 4 days, you at least get two days break if you are in semi 1). It's entirely possible that the UK's performance in the jury final (4th show - on Friday Night) might well have nailed the vocals better as well.

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Crikeyalmighty · 18/05/2025 14:40

@RedToothBrush yes she had3 songs in Eurovision - 2 others in different country finals . She’s a fabulously lovely lady -

housethatbuiltme · 18/05/2025 14:42

cardboardvillage · 18/05/2025 13:48

Remember Monday are too good for Europe. They like random stuff

Hoe did Italy get no5?

Italy... if you ordered circa 1975 Ace Frehley from wish lol.

Choux · 18/05/2025 14:46

They do 6 shows? Are three of those dress rehearsals for the semi, the jury show and the televised show?

HarryVanderspeigle · 18/05/2025 14:51

My takeaways are

  1. Baby Lasagne, with Käärijä, was the best thing about eurovision for the second year in a row. Shame he wasn't even in the running to win this year. Maybe joint country battles are a way to go 🤔.
  1. Sweden were my favourite and will be humming the sauna song for some time.
  1. The kids preferred the espresso macchiato song, showing that there are different tastes even in the same house.
  1. UK was just meh. The costumes were odd, the tune was mismatched/recycled and they spent a fair time with a fake bed hiding them from half of the audience. If we want to do better, we need to send a better song. It worked for Sam Ryder, who happily seems to be making a good career from it now.
  1. I want Baby Lasagne back next year!
OublietteBravo · 18/05/2025 14:51

Choux · 18/05/2025 14:46

They do 6 shows? Are three of those dress rehearsals for the semi, the jury show and the televised show?

For the final there is a dress rehearsal, the jury show and the actual final. The semis used to be the same, but now there are no juries the jury show has become a second dress rehearsal.

RedToothBrush · 18/05/2025 14:57

Choux · 18/05/2025 14:46

They do 6 shows? Are three of those dress rehearsals for the semi, the jury show and the televised show?

Yes there's 9 shows in total, three for each semi and for the final.

The first show is Monday Night for semi 1 (this was the jury show before they ditched the jury for the semis), then Tuesday PM and the the broadcast semi is Tuesday Night.

Semi 2 is Wednesday Eve, Thursday Matinee and the Thursday Live Broadcast

The Final is Friday night (the jury show), then the Saturday Matinee and then the Saturday live final.

This allows them to effectively rehearse the staging and cameras and record backup visuals - for the live broadcasts they can put in filler clips from the earlier shows if they have a technical (or maybe an incident like a stage invasion). It also is a backup if a performer has a problem and maybe can't perform.

So yeah it's full on and not just three shows.

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Helloworlditsmeagain · 18/05/2025 15:24

Remember Monday was shocking they weren't singing in harmony and they were shouty. I know you have to stand by who you choose to represent you but they were shocking. We are tone deaf but the rest of the world isn't. Hopefully next year we will have better talent.

ScribblingPixie · 18/05/2025 15:29

My solution would be that any broadcaster whose nation is a war can be represented at Eurovision with their song by pre-recorded video but not actually take part in the competition. So I'd have videos of a chosen song from Russia, Ukraine and Israel if they wanted to send one, but not allow them to be at the venue in person or voted on.

I'd also like changes on the number of votes you can make. Politics aside, it's wearing a bit thin with me that the UK televote always favours Poland no matter how bad the song.

SheilaFentiman · 18/05/2025 15:46

housethatbuiltme · 18/05/2025 14:42

Italy... if you ordered circa 1975 Ace Frehley from wish lol.

I think Italy was distinctive - if you like that sort of thing, there was only italy to vote for, whereas if you want a ballad there was France, Greece, Switzerland… and if you want a novelty bonkers song there was Sweden and Estonia

RedToothBrush · 18/05/2025 15:49

ScribblingPixie · 18/05/2025 15:29

My solution would be that any broadcaster whose nation is a war can be represented at Eurovision with their song by pre-recorded video but not actually take part in the competition. So I'd have videos of a chosen song from Russia, Ukraine and Israel if they wanted to send one, but not allow them to be at the venue in person or voted on.

I'd also like changes on the number of votes you can make. Politics aside, it's wearing a bit thin with me that the UK televote always favours Poland no matter how bad the song.

What years in the last 50 count as years the UK has not been at war?

It depends on your definition.

Many would class the troubles in NI as Civil War ( it meets many of the criteria)

Then there's been Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and The Falklands (amongst others)

We are also STILL involved in Operation Shader
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Shader

And Operation Prosperity Guardian
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Prosperity_Guardian

Honestly, this isn't the argument we would like to believe it is....

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ArtTheClownIsNotAMime · 18/05/2025 16:07

What other ways could there be to stop/dilute the public political voting? I can't think of anything workable.

RedToothBrush · 18/05/2025 16:10

ArtTheClownIsNotAMime · 18/05/2025 16:07

What other ways could there be to stop/dilute the public political voting? I can't think of anything workable.

I think it's the workability issue that's the problem.

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