Adolescence

[heartsinvisiblefury]

What an amazing piece of television. Stephen Graham is exceptional. Highly recommend this - on Netflix.

I’m only about half way through episode 1, the one continuous shot is horrible and making me feel travel sick with so much movement. I don’t know what it adds tbh. So much time spent watching people
walking up and down corridors 🥴

That family looks broken, and the only way mum would be doing a good job is taking the kids and leaving. It would be good to see the mindset shifting of to stop tolerating toxic masculinity, otherwise, as a society we will never move away from consensus of “keeping family together” for the sake of what exactly?

I felt the same. The whole one shot thing was such a gimmick and didn’t really add anything to the show except for some cinematic point scoring.

I said 'she was keeping it together', I.e herself.

My point was she was emotionally stronger for the family - a seperate issue from divorce/whether she should leave or not.

The one shot didn't work because then they had to shoehorn bits in and it looked clumsy.
It would have been much better the police at the station talking about incels, rather than AW being told by his son and then him telling the policewoman with the dippy teacher standing there asking what it is, so it's explained o the viewers.

Teacher here - completely agree, especially about the junior school teacher! I found the whole school episode the least credible and most full of stereotypes. And the idea that in such a supposedly tough school even experienced teachers would be that naive, and lacking in class control and street smarts was just laughable. Equally hard to believe was the idea that SO many kids would laugh at news of a murder (and not even nervous tittering, which might be more believable as displacement for shock), or react to police officer with honking noises - you might get the odd one saying something inappropriate, but they’d really stand out and probably get shushed by their classmates. Even the most hardened kids don’t play up to important outside visitors to that extent, however they might behave with their usual class teachers. Nor could a police officer just barge into a classroom without accompanying staff and yank students out the way the DI did. I know it’s drama, but as a teacher these kinds of implausibilities really grind my gears - especially as ep 1 seemed (as far as I can tell) to do a much more careful job of accurately representing the police procedural side of things.

I agree that the one shot thing was a bit of a gimmick and didn't really work. It worked well in 'Boiling Point' because the entire series was set in one location, and the technique captured the frenetic nature of restaurant work, with so much going on behind the scenes.

I think the same was true for episode one where the one shot emphasised the panic and chaos quite well. But overall the technique obliged them to have an entire episode with just one focus, which I didn't think really suited the show. They had to have a whole rather boring episode in the school when a few scenes would have been enough. We get it. You can shoot entire episodes in one take. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

I agree, I don't think it would go over we'll in school.

I and many others have watched it with our teens, but we can then use it to have one on one conversations about it.

I don't think being surrounded by school mates is the right environment for that.

Also there's a lot of nuance that adults aren't able to grasp, so teens will be less likely too.

This was exactly me and DH last night. He was so sympathetic to the dad ‘reaching the end of his tether’ by throwing the paint on the van whereas I thought he behaved like a prick quite frankly.

Yep dh and I had the same discussion. I said to dh do you think a woman would act like that?

No a woman would be unlikely to react like that but that’s because men and women are different.

There was a phrase they all used like a mantra ‘let’s get the day back’. Hearing that it was so obvious the mum and daughter were used to normal family activities turning to shit because of the dad’s rage and poor behaviour.

meh, from my pov ep1 wasn't particularly realistic either - mainly in terms of timescales which again was due to the 1 shot thing

Katie was murdered at about half 10 at night and by the time of the arrest at 6am the next day they had multiple different lots of CCTV footage and had got an ID of Ryan
How? From where? Having been the person who goes round trying to get CCTV it is NOT a quick process - even in a murder case you don't go round knocking people's doors at 2am to get them up to look if their ring doorbell caught anything, you wait until the morning. Nearly all shops will be closed by 10pm and not open again until at least 6, and the final CCTV was "from the Council" - the whole point of CCTV is that it's REMOTE, there isn't anyone there watching it overnight - again any relevant staff will have logged off at 5pm and won't be wandering back in again until 8 or 9am. Bear in mind although the evidence was shown chronologically they'd had to have had the stabbing footage first to then know where/when/who they were looking for on all the other CCTV.

Even once they got the CCTV, who did they get to identify Jamie? Would Katie's parents have known a random kid in her year she wasn't friends with from grainy cctv footage? Even if they did manage to identify him (and not just as "um I think his name might be Jamie something?" but surname as well), they wouldn't know his address. 13 y/olds aren't on the electoral register, you'd be waiting again until 9am, either for the council to check child benefit or more likely to ask the school.

Bear in mind all this is happening overnight - while police are working, it's lower staffing (particularly for detectives) than during day hours, plus all the other crimes needing resourcing.

Then there's a risk assessment, getting a full squad of armed police in (6am would still be the night shift before earlies clock on), and giving them a briefing, making an interview plan, etc.

The DI acts as though he's doing Jamie a favour by recommending he ask for a solicitor when in the car but it's an essential part of his legal rights that the Custody Sergeant had to tell him anyway - if they'd interviewed him without telling him he was entitled to one a judge could rule the whole interview inadmissible evidence or even raised concerns about corruption/intimidation.

The duty solicitor seems to get there about 2 minutes after being called, and then randomly the DI tells him off for being too eager (for asking to see his client, again, something he not only is entitled to do but would be utterly weird if he didn't?!) and calls him a prick? Perhaps some officers do think solicitors are pricks but they don't insult them to their faces (particularly when they work with the same ones all the time!)

They should have formally questioned the dad to ensure he wasn't a potential witness or even suspect/accomplice first before allowing him to be the appropriate adult - the most likely place for Jamie to have got the knife would have been at home, same with the mum and sister, not allowing them to all travel to the station together and confer.

I'm also a bit iffy on the strip search - it's only required if there's reasonable grounds that the detainee may be concealing something. It's pretty obvious that Jamie won't have the knife hidden in his pants! They said something about seeing whether he might have had any other injuries, including on his penis (presumably defensive wounds from Katie?) - but they had the CCTV which showed the speed of the assault and that there wasn't any rape so how would she have ever been in a position to injure him through his clothing? Plus they shouldn't make detainees take all their clothes off at the same time but do top first, then put that back on, then bottoms off, to try and maintain more dignity.

Oh and they should all have had their BWV on before they even entered the house (or a separate officer specifically filming), and the DI should have kept his on throughout the car journey, for the purposes of confirming no unnecessary damage/brutality, etc.

I thought episode four was very dull and dragged on. Episode three, and the phone call in the van (poss early episode four) were very good.

I thought the I cel stuff wasn’t explored enough, and there were many plot holes.

makes you feel for a family going through that - hard to imagine the man coming out of whatever detention the teen gets will be improved by the system.

@latetothefisting I have no idea why they decided to crush days of police work into a totally impossible few hours. Dramatically it wasn't needed at all. Btw, you forgot that by approximately 645 they had his school records as well!

Yeah I have to admit I struggle to understand why they didn't set the arrest for a bit later. Had they set the arrest time at 7.30am it would make it a tad more believable that a solicitor, and a nurse would be dressed and ready to walk in within 20 minutes of being told they were needed.

At 6 - 6.30 the vast majority of people aren't yet out of bed, let alone dressed. But at 7am most people are up and getting ready for work. That's what rush hour is 8am - 9am - the key time everyone has just left their house and on their way to work. So if the solicitor got the call to come down at say 7.40am it would be a bit more believable that he was able to get there so quickly.

It's a daft point 😂 but could have made a bit of a difference to believability.

All the viewpoints on here have been very interesting to read, and I see all the points made in the series. I especially have enjoyed the "expert" contributions!

I'm 3/4 way through.

I found it interesting that the DI wasn't getting anywhere until his son had to tell him what the emojis meant, and that the victim was bullying her killer online. How can a detective miss that?

The facility security guard is very creepy. I'm dealing with a male colleague who operates like that at the moment. I have to tell him why he's making me uncomfortable. For Briony, she must come across this type of "friendly" creep a lot, but she shouldn't have to put up with it.

Briony vs Jamie was very like a play. I'm not surprised because Jack Thorne has written plays before. Briony tried to give Jamie a little power by giving him the drink & the sandwich. Unfortunately, despite her taking it back several times, Jamie ultimately gained more power than she did, and he absolutely loved it. He was right, he doesn't give him mum much thought other than when she cooks him a roast dinner, and he never thinks about his sister at all. They are just things to serve a purpose. When Briony found out just how misogynistic Jamie was, and how dangerous he could be, she was shook, but I can't believe she's never come across someone like him before.

Another thing that occurred to me: Stephen Graham said he was inspired by two cases of murder by a teenage boy to a teenage girl. Um, when I was at school in the early 90s boys were horrible to girls, really sexist and hateful, and so this type of misogyny isn't new. Yet, we are being told the internet is driving this up. I don't think so. I think it's as bad as when I was a teenager, and it was put in lads mags for shits and giggles. Nothing has changed.

So if the solicitor got the call to come down at say 7.40am it would be a bit more believable that he was able to get there so quickly

Aren't duty solicitors on call, and available 24x7? If he was on call then of course he'd be able to get there quickly, especially with no traffic on the roads.

Watched all 4 last night.

Superb hard breaking real life drama. It deserves to win everything.

I would like to see this shown at all secondary schools. Maybe from end of year 7. I think they should watch 2 episodes then have lunch . Then have a discussion in the afternoon add then do the same the next day with the other 2 episodes.

I was shocked at the arrest process , his
feet didn’t touch the ground.

I feel so lucky my children are now grown and through this stage and we got through it unscathed. Phones had just started then and I realise I wasn’t strict enough ie confiscating the phone overnight etc or monitoring online .

We both said afterwards here by the grace of god we survived that stage. I really feel what happened honestly could be any family.

It’s living rent free in my head today. I think it will for a long time . Everyone in the drama was incredible.

'I would like to see this shown at all secondary schools. Maybe from end of year 7'

Honest, sincere question - what would you hope this would achieve? I've seen this suggestion in the last few days and I really don't get it. It's clearly a show made for adults. Teenagers could certainly watch it but they're much less likely to be shocked by the content. Boys violently attacking girls is very sadly not news, and they're probably aware of the emoji / manosphere stuff already

It would've been more realistic if the focus was that he'd been groomed online, gaming with someone he thought to be 13 who was actually a 30yr old paedophile who they went on to meet him and murder him Those are the real risks of a13yr old online not some weird incel storyline.

There have been many teenagers affected by not just incel ideology but also glamorisation of mass shootings and similar terroristic behaviour. This is a very real risk and dismissing it in the way that you are is quite irresponsible.

I feel like episode 4 is very parent centred and would be boring to teens. I can imagine episode one perhaps being more interesting to young kids in year seven (although ethically tricky as it is rated 15). The second episode would be an interesting one for discussion around the realism of the school, how they think their school would react to a tragic event, etc. And episode three digs into Jamie’s motivations so it still feels more child-focused to me (even with the bits that dwell on Briony). But I just can’t see them responding as much to the last episode.

Yeah maybe. Like I said it was a daft point. But people saying it's a tad unbelievable that at 6am police officers could storm a house and within 45 minutes that person is not only in an interview but had breakfast, had a solicitor and done all their checks - is kinda valid.

Be good if a police officer could come online to tell us whether this is realistic, haha.

Just to add, I really enjoyed it and was more than prepared to suspend disbelief to focus on the action/dialogue/themes/characters. The possibly unrealistic timeline didn't ruin it for me - like it did for others. But I can appreciate their point.