Lucan (spoilers)

[TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis]

I binge watched this yesterday, found it a really good watch, though the ending was a bit wishy-washy.

What did others think?

I found it pretty unlikely that they could go to all those lengths, follow all those highly niche clues, and find someone who a) wasn't Lucan but b) had such a strong match on facial recognition and c) spouted so many "appropriate" things like going to Eton (unless the edit just filtered out him saying dozens of things that didn't fit).

And in the end, I thought it was odd that they took one old man's word for it that it was a different person, whilst not taking the same verification steps!

Very sad overall. Especially the ex boyfriend of Sandra who asked her to swap date night, she wasn't even supposed to be there.

I think he did escape to Africa, possibly now dead - or possibly the guy in Australia.

The fact that Neil traced him, the facial recognition results , the notch in his nose, the way he spoke, the things the old man said about going to Eton and hanging out with Princess Margaret. I admire Neil Berriman for his tenacity and inventiveness. Sometimes obsession is the only way to success.

Aspinall's body language when asked if Lucan could still be alive was interesting, he was smirking and confirming that he would cover up in the name of friendship for Lucan, add that to his secretary confirming that she booked flights for his children does seem to me that he did escape. It mentioned in the program that Lucan's children went to live with their mothers sister and her husband Christina and William Shand Kydd and they knew about the trips to Africa - William was the half brother to Peter Shand Kydd - Diana's stepfather.

The old guy in Australia was a disturbed and disturbing individual.

Was he trying to get people to think he was Lucan for some sort of ego boost ?

I gave up after ten minutes!

Agreed. It was absolutely dire.

I binge watched this last night. First things first: Neil Berriman needs therapy and/or counselling. Lord Lucan committed suicide, and he needs to accept that. His partner, his daughter and his investigator friend dropped several strong hints that his obsession was making him a pain in the arse. I don't think he's insane, although I suspect this has been quite a big hurdle in his life which he's never quite cleared. I totally understand that, mind you. It must be completely awful not to have closure on something like that.

With slightly less respect, Neil isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. Listening to his reasoning as to why a random old beatnik must be the missing aristocrat that murdered his birth mother reminded me of someone explaining why the earth is flat. Not once during the film did he think critically. Derek Crowther's nose and ears are nothing like Lucan's. 'He must have had plastic surgery! See look, it's obvious!' Says a man who knows absolutely fuck all about plastic surgery, or going on the run, or absolutely anything relevant to solving a 50 year old mystery that has baffled hundreds of top experts in their fields. A facial recognition website says that Derek Crowther is Lord Lucan. Well that settles it! Lock him up!

I quite liked the old Aussie dude who went out with Neil's Mum, but he enabled Neil's bullshit. 'You're bloody brave mate. You ought to be a detective!' All I can say is thank fuck he's stuck to brick laying, because as an investigator Neil Berriman is about as much use as tits on a boar.

I think the saddest thing about the film is that by all accounts, Neil has had a pretty good life. He spoke of his adoptive parents with nothing but affection, he's got a partner and a daughter who both care about him, and he's had a good career. That's what makes his obsession so tragic. Then again, who knows how it would feel to have that in your past. There but for the grace of God go I

Lucan was supposed to have lived in Candolim in Goa for years, fact or fiction I don't know but there was much written about it in a couple of books. Bob's Inn was his local and there are many photos on the walls Was surprised there was no mention of this in the programme and why did they not find a way of getting DNA?

Regarding "Christopher Bell" who the theatre director stated was in fact Peter Jason, drag performer in Toronto 1969.

CB said he was born Derek Crowther and showed a birth certificate. From that I was able to trace him on Ancestry.

CB said his father was a baker in Buckingham Palace.
CB later said his father was a puppeteer who performed in Buckingham Palace.

Ancestry proves that Derek Crowther's father was a baker (1939 Register).
The British Newspaper Archive holds a news story about an 18 yr old Derek Crowther performing a puppet show in a community show in Islington.

CB said his mother was Lady Winifred Ramouse, whose father founded the Daily Mirror.

Ancestry proves that Derek Crowther's mother was Winifred Ramus, whose father was a printer of newspapers in London.

The 1939 Register also shows that Derek Crowther changed his surname to Jason. In Toronto late sixties early seventies he was called Peter Jason.

So you can see, the ramblings of the old man "Chris Bell" were in fact based on half-remembered truths about his origins.

So he isn't Lucan.

Oh yes, and also CB said he worked in Hamleys in Regent Street, and I found a press report about him which mentions he was a shop assitant in that area - but In WH Smith in Mortimer Street.

I binged it and thought it was good, surprised at the negative comments.

Wow! It’s a pity the reporter didn’t do this work isn’t it ? Or even Neil himself. What a travesty.

His father's probate is on Ancestry and he left £40,000 which in 1985 was worth a lot more than today.

I've solved it. See my long post upthread.

It literally took me 30 seconds on Ancestry to find his birth and from there one click to a family tree that was uploaded years ago. Ten minutes looking at the primary sources 1911 census, 1939 register, electoral registers.

Then two minutes on the British Newspaper Archive.

Job done.

As you say, why didn't someone on the production team do this?

One more thing.

Derek Crowther currently calls himself Christopher BELL.

Well, his father's name was Cuthbert Bell Crowther and Cuthbert's mother was Dorothy Bell.

Derek's mother died in 84, his father died in 85, leaving £40k, and Derek was an only child so he would have inherited that. £40k back then is about £150,000 today. Still not enough to support a man for 40-odd years.

The reason Neil didn't find any of this out was because he wouldn't have been able to drag the thing into three episodes if he had.
He wanted the men to be Lucan. At all costs.

Time for Neil to get a life and focus on his wife and daughter. It’s beyond sad.

I really wanted it to be Lucan even though even prior to this show I was pretty sure he is dead (old age). The nick in the nose was what sold it to me, even though his ears were too big and low down his face. The coincidences were just so many.

And even though it wasn’t, I don’t believe Lucan committed suicide. He was in Africa. The Cold Stream guards address book is sound imo, he was in the cold stream guards too.

Also Dominic Elwes, father of Carey Elwes, Princess Bride - was a friend of Lucan. I’d suspect there are a large amount of wealthy friends who all know where he is and have all along.

Dominic Elwes committed suicide not that long after the murder of Sandra Rivett.

He was ostracised by the other rich buggers in their little enclave.

there's no evidence he committed suicide but then again there's no evidence he didn't.

Actually scrub that - have the children confirmed / denied a couple of trips to Africa?

I've just emailed Neil Berriman with all my findings.

@Ladyof2024 good work!

I wondered if the carer was actually a son.

And then there is the possibility that the 82 year old has a large bank balance and no one else to leave it to.

Facial recognition can only go so far in saying what is similar. And sometimes people do look identical even though they are not related.

www.irishcentral.com/culture/craic/identical-strangers-ryanair#:~:text=Neil%20Thomas%20Douglas%20and%20his%20%22twin%20stranger%22%20Robert%20Stirling%20found,the%20image%20to%20social%20media.

@Ladyof2024
Great work! I’d be surprised if someone on the production team hadn’t tried that - they did say they checked it all out…but then strange that they didn’t include it as all those facts together that you’ve presented seem much more convincing than a blurry photo from a theatre production in the 1960s.

But Neil believes the old man has stolen Derek Crowther’s identity so I guess will argue that the old man could also look up that information? He has an impressive memory for a 90 year old if so!

Re the inheritances it’s also possible another family member e.g. an aunt or uncle left him something too. As I said earlier if you were left e.g. a house in London you could definitely live off those proceeds for a long time.

That’s interesting! Let us know if you get a reply! You should write to one of the papers too.