Wolf Hall - The Mirror and the Light

[virgocatlover]

Series 2 is confirmed to start Sunday 10th November.

Almost 10 years after the first series, I'm excited to see the third and final novel brought to life.

It’s good - capturing how mad Henry gets will be tricky.

The real story - history - of FIREBRAND is miles better than the film.

Surviving a serial
killer husband and being the author of a major religious guide simultaneously is no mean feat - Katharine Parr did both, and swerved the assassins Henry sent to kill
her.

Did they call Italy Italy back then? It surely wasn't a country, but was a geographical concept?

Yes, I think like the first series it's superbly cast, even for the minor characters. Only exception being Rylance himself! It's not that it's not a good performance, just that he lacks the physical presence to be a convincing Cromwell.

Watching Damien Lewis morph into fat Holbein Henry is going to be fun. And I can't wait to see Katherine Howard and Anne of Cleves!

Anne of Cleves was after Cromwell's death, you won't see her.
Found tonight's episode so compulsive, and Mark R brilliant as always.

That's not correct. Cromwell was the one who pushed the Cleves marriage and Henry's distaste and subsequent repudiation of her was the catalyst for Cromwell's downfall.

I'm looking forward to her as she's my favourite of the wives.

Umm I'm scared to watch the first series, are there torture scenes etc?

My late MIL always said AoC was her favourite too. She said she was clever and did exactly the right thing in giving a Henry what he wanted - divorce. Getting to live out her days in great comfort and wealth as a “beloved sister” to the King.

Oops, sorry, I was getting Anne of Cleves mixed up with Catherine Parr! Too many wives, Henry! 😀

The first episode lived up to all my expectations. Mark Rylance could read the phone book and it would be compelling. Cromwell is at his absolute peak here.... the next few episodes will be interesting.
And Damian Lewis is the perfect mix of charming and menacing.
I liked the idea of bringing back Wolsey, so we can get an indication of what Cromwell is thinking.

I only spotted 2 minor characters with unexpected ethnicity

I know there were black people in Tudor courts but thought they were musicians etc
an ambassador from a foreign court would make sense, but not English aristocracy

Is Cromwell a terrible person? I haven't read the books, but I didn't think so through the first season. He's smart, and he does what he has to do. And I took from Mary's conversation with him that they both knew (and I think Cromwell had accepted all along) that they weren't too big to get whacked.

Just joining the chorus of Mark Rylance is wonderful but wrong here. Not helped by an extra 10 years of age, it’s made him even less physically correct for the role. Shame.

I would love to see him play almost anything else…actually I really wish they would remake A Man For All Seasons (anyone seen the 1960s film?) and cast him as Thomas More.

"Is Cromwell a terrible person"?

Well that's the whole point isn't it? I totally adore the books, and am a huge Cromwell supporter. He advocated for the Bible in English and the Commonwealth.

But he also totally fabricated the evidence to execute Anne and her "lovers". Of course he did - he found men who were Guilty, if not necessarily of the crimes they were charged.

So, "Is Cromwell a terrible person"? Yes and No. Like most of us.

I love when Thomas More in the Tower whines "I do none harm", and Cromwell loses his temper and reminds More that he (More) personally oversaw the torture of "heretics". "None Harm" bollocks.

Ah, the 1960's film with Paul Schofield.........I remember being shown that in school. Robert Shaw as Henry? It must have been a fairly new film as I was born in 1958!

I would love to see him play almost anything else…actually I really wish they would remake A Man For All Seasons (anyone seen the 1960s film?) and cast him as Thomas More.

Yes! It’s one of my favourite films of all time. I remember going to see it with my Mum when I was about 10 or 11, and it made such an impression on me - gave me my love of history, I think! I agree Rylance would be perfect as More.

I always think that Cromwell in the Holbein portrait looks a bit like a podgier version of Sam Kelly from 'Allo 'Allo.

It's so refreshing to watch a drama that doesn't assume the audience is stupid. My only quibble so far is that one or two of the actors (Mary, for example) have accents that are too 21st century. It's a bit jarring.

It was one of the first films I saw at the cinema ...I must have only been 5. DM had told me how it ended, I seem to remember enjoying the clever talking.

I loved the first episode! Beautifully filmed and just perfect. Had forgotten how wonderful Claire Foy was as Anne. That execution, where she darts her head one way and he flips to the other side, so gruesomely clever.

Yes, Anton Lesser's daughter plays Mary, but going by Instagram they/he would not be happy to be described that way!

I really enjoyed last night's episode. Damien Lewis has really captured Henry as his health started to go downhill.

I thought Firebrand was OK but I find Alicia Vikander too self-contained an actress. Jude Law was great. And unrecognisable! Who'd have thought he was the godlike creature of Mr Ripley? Though maybe that was the point, given Henry was so dashing in his youth.

He has always been seen as a terrible man traditionally. But Hilary Mantel completely redrew that for me. Now I am a Cromwell fan girl and often pop into the national portrait gallery to say hello when I’m passing.

I loved the first episode. I didn't even really notice the colour blind casting as the rest of it was so engrossing.
Damian Lewis is so great in this-he is really capturing Henry's descent into what I believe was serious mental illness caused (accelerated?) by his injury in the joust-and just how terrifying it would have been to be close to him in any way at that point-high in his esteem one minute, being carted off to the Tower the next.

The only thing I didn't like really was Chapuys, who I felt was a bit over played by the actor and I found Gregory's age up a bit jarring, though I suppose Tom Holland was too busy.

Yes, she was no fool that woman! She got a generous stipend and home as part of her settlement, and was ranked above all women in the land other than the King's wife and sisters. She appeared frequently at court and got on well with Henry. In fact she got on well with everyone and was loved by all who worked for her. All this, without having to regularly shag fat Henry! Win win!

Mark Rylance as Thomas More would be a great idea! He's just not right for the rough, physically imposing Cromwell. Actors don't necessarily have to resemble the characters they play, but Cromwell's physicality was intrinsic to him. And it's hard to imagine Rylance's version as the son of a blacksmith from Putney, especially as his lowly origins are going to become increasingly important as the story goes on.

Interesting how in 'A Man for All Seasons' More was seen as a principled hero, and Cromwell as almost a pantomime villain. Now we tend to see it nearly the other way round. It reminds me of how, as someone said, historical fiction says more about the times in which it was created than the time in which it was set.

If Mark Rylance had not played the role in this new series, I wouldn't have watched it. He will always be Cromwell to me! His acting is far more important than his appearance. And we'll never know how accurate these old portraits were!