Wolf Hall - The Mirror and the Light

[virgocatlover]

Series 2 is confirmed to start Sunday 10th November.

Almost 10 years after the first series, I'm excited to see the third and final novel brought to life.

His voice is no way thin or reedy. It's soft and deliberate. As Cromwell he sounds like he's carefully weighing and deploying every word, which really suits the character, with his background in law where it's all about the exact meanings and use of words, and the never-ending chess game of diplomacy and trying to stay ahead of the king and everyone else's manoeuvrings.

Except for once in a while when he's with his circle of men and jovially says something incautious. I watched episodes 3&4 last night and there seems to be some rather obvious material for betrayal.

Yes, those moments keep creeping in. My overwhelming feeling in this season is of him starting to misjudge/not think quite enough/lose control in tiny but significant ways. He is palpably losing his grip and it's fascinating how it's portrayed. And terrifying and foreboding.

Yes it might seem illogical but legally "drawing" does refer to being drawn to the place of execution on a hurdle. Drawing was part of the sentence for petty treason as well as high treason (eg murdering your master) but evisceration and quartering wasn't. So men guilty of petty treason were (only) hanged and drawn. When the penalty for high treason was reduced to hanging the condemned were again hanged and drawn - ie drawn on a hurdle (in Scotland a sledge) and then hanged. So the drawing is the method of getting to the execution rather than the execution itself. Women accused of high treason were drawn and burned - again an example of drawing being the method of transport rather than the punishment as they were not eviscerated. There are a number of historic legal commentaries that clarify the point - notably Blackstone.

Rafe was in charge of keeping Mary Queen of Scots a prisoner at one point iirc.

Cromwell's trainees all went on to do well I think, except Gregory who died relatively young.

https://www.historyextra.com/period/tudor/the-truth-about-thomas-cromwell/

I've just looked him up, I didn't know he was related to Patrick Troughton (the second Doctor for younger people on the thread).

Also on the Dr Who theme, the actor who played Rafe was in the Family of Blood episodes during David Tennant's tenure. I know he's been in loads of other things as well but that was the one I remembered.

Yes, Thomas Brodie-Sangster was in Dr Who, Game of Thrones and Love Actually.

And Nanny McFee. He was a really good child actor - I think one of the ones with the benefit of looking younger than their age so they have a bit more maturity than the character they're playing iykwim. Still is good, though he does still look young!

He played a young Paul McCartney as well in Nowhere Boy.

esma, am I right that there was loads about his wife and children in the books? I feel like they've been erased from the TV. Or I'm imagining them. Also possible . I thought they featured right at the end.

They’re dead by the events of Bring Up the Bodies and The Mirror and the Light, though, which is why they didn’t feature much. He remembers them from time to time. And had an affair with his wife’s married sister.

Oh, I know they're dead! So is Wolsey. I thought he imagined them all the time.

Just finished and had to Google Rafe and Gregory and was pleased that Rafe lived for a very long time and seemed to have a good life.

Yes he was still in government during the reign of Elizabeth I. His marriage was a nice story too.

He married for love.

There were rumours that Rafe Sadler was a bigamist. There was the early marriage to a low-born woman (Helen in the books) and then a later more advantageous marriage once he was becoming established at court.

Something I felt was not made much of in TMATL but more prominent in Wolf Hall and in the books, was how many people Cromwell took in at Austin Friars. Helen was one of them, Rafe, Richard Cromwell, Christophe, all of his wife’s family. Apart from his men, they were all absent from TMATL.

I haven’t read the books but I really thought that was a really touching thing about Crum in the series. He said in the last episode that if anyone had the mettle to come to his gate then he would try to give them a chance in life. He wasn’t one of those that made good then pulls the ladder up behind him. Hope that generous side to him is based on fact and that there were others like him doing the same too at that time.

I thought that it was his wife who was the bigamist as her first husband (who she thought had died) came back some time after their marriage. It took an Act of Parliament to undo the first marriage and legitimise their children

I thought that it was his wife who was the bigamist as her first husband (who she thought had died) came back some time after their marriage. It took an Act of Parliament to undo the first marriage and legitimise their children

I've just been reading wiki pages of various of these people, that's what it says there.

I wish they'd do a documentary on the making of Wolf Hall - the costumes, locations, even interviews with the actors.

@BeatrizBoniface and @DontStopMe

He's been doing the job for so long it's completely normal for him, however I am always blown away by the documents he works on. He arranged for a 'behind the scenes ' tour for me and DH and when we went into his work area he produced a document he thought I might be interested in - a handwritten letter from one of the King George's (can't remember which one '- possibly George III!) to Handel. Absolutely amazing.

Please God no. He's great actor but in his comfort zone. His Welsh accent in the White House Farm Murders was execrable.

There was one!

Just finished watching, magnificent series, wish they made more like it. I especially want to mention the wonderful costumes, what a feast for the eyes. And seeing tapestries in their full glory instead of faded brown. Not to mention the acting which was superb.

Anyone wanting a copy of Cromwell's chain of office - this is a rabbit hole of a website shop and the proprietor made a number of items of jewellery for Wolf Hall. https://www.theenchantedtudorrose.co.uk/ourshop/prod_8143998-Master-Cromwell-Order-of-The-Garter-Chain-Of-Office.html

It's so brilliantly created that I find myself completely lost within it. The costumes and sets are brilliantly authentic and packed with detail. The acting is outstanding, drawing me into that world, which is often menacing and at times, terrifying. I like to watch it alone, with my airpods in and the house lights off. It's very rural here with no outside noise or lights so I'm totally immersed.