Wolf Hall - The Mirror and the Light

[virgocatlover]

Series 2 is confirmed to start Sunday 10th November.

Almost 10 years after the first series, I'm excited to see the third and final novel brought to life.

Spot on 😆 I knew that portrait reminded me of someone, now I know!

I’m confused - is Gregory’s new wife (Beth or Bess?) Jane Seymour’s sister?

That’s Elizabeth, I’m afraid I don’t know the shortened use.

We lost electricity ( thanks Bert ) before the end and I’m desperate to know
Was that girl at the end Jane as she hasnt cropped up yet.
I didn’t read the book so I don’t know if she’s in it.

@Tinybigtanya Absolutely. The drama is very well done but the books are otherworldly good. Her book about the French Revolution, A Place Of Greater Safety, is also incredible.

It’s understood she was pregnant when they married. Hence the quick wedding.
There was a report from a person at court a Dr Ortiz that Henry had married again to a lady already 5 months or so pregnant. That lady was Jane.

The baby never appeared or was celebrated so must have been still born or miscarried.

I picked that up in a charity shop today and then put it back because it's enormous. I wish I was a more disciplined reader.

It is but it doesn’t feel it at all, I promise. It is honestly a dream of a read. I was so sad when I finished it.

Yes Gregory married Jane's widowed sister

I'm loving it still, mesmerising, Mark Rylance is superb

In the book (not sure if also in the tv series as haven’t got that far yet) there’s a toe curling scene where Cromwell and Jane’s sister Elizabeth realise there’s been a misunderstanding where Cromwell has been arranging for her to marry his son Gregory but she believes she’s meant to be marrying Cromwell himself. Mantel writes excruciatingly embarrassing so so well, similar to the Wolsey’s daughter Dorothea scene.

@Bernadinetta ah yes that was in last night's episode

Oh good, can’t wait to watch. For me, it’s those little moments from Mantel’s imagination that really elevate it from just watching/reading a history. It’s all very well seeing moments like Anne’s beheading and Henry and Jane’s wedding etc but these are well documented and have been reproduced over and over through the years. But it’s moments like Cromwell clumsily proposing to Dorothea or the crossed wires about which Cromwell Bess Seymour is to marry that make it historical fiction and add an extra layer of interest and intrigue, especially for a modern audience.

But it’s moments like Cromwell clumsily proposing to Dorothea or the crossed wires about which Cromwell Bess Seymour is to marry that make it historical fiction and add an extra layer of interest and intrigue, especially for a modern audience.

Yes, and the secondary characters are so well done too. Lady Rochford is such fun to watch. Always hovering over the scene, seeing what hints of scandal she can pick up and pass on. Always looking to scheme and make trouble.

Jessica Raine played her in the first series but this is a new actress. She captures her gossipy cynicism really well.

Yes, Lady Rochford is a great character. She was there through all the upheaval, until Katherine Howard. I wish she'd written her memoirs!

She was fascinating, she served 5 out of the 6 queens! The things she could’ve told!

But she’s black and Jane is white ?

I know, what an incredible life, at the centre of such turbulent times.

Yes, I think it's the colour blind casting that people were referring to upthread.

I'm afraid I'm finding it fairly dreary. Which is how I found the book.
To keep up some kind of dramatic tension, each episode is centred on something that didn't happen.
Also, as someone said upthread, there was no chance that Cromwell would have met Mary Tudor alone, especially in her nightdress.
And the colour-blind casting is annoying.

It's not without it's pleasures, but not as enjoyable as I thought it would be.

I think there has been a biography of sorts written about Lady Rochford, but as so often with non royal women of that era, very little is really known about her and much of the book is padding and educated guesswork. Until her marrriage to George Boleyn and involvement in the downfall of Katherine Howard, she was just another well born court lady.

But yes, Lady Rochford would be a great 'fantasy dinner party' guest. The stories she could tell! Nothing got past that woman.

Wouldn't she just! In another era she could have had a more powerful political role.

I think the Northern Rebellion underlined Henry's vulnerability and how it justified his strong desire to continue the Tudor dynasty and have a male heir.
That moment when the King collapsed and Cromwell's expression told of a man fearing what would happen next.
If Henry died and there was civil war, where would Cromwell be? Great moment.

I never thought I would say this, but Phillippa Gregory wrote a novel centred on her, which isn't bad

What's it called?