Our Flag Means Death: Thread 3. It's still utterly brilliant. We are still obsessed.

[TriceratopsRocks]

Ahoy again mateys! Set sail aboard thread 3 where we still wax lyrical about our favourite show, its cast, its music, fan edits, fan fiction and more 😁(there may also be just a little obsessing over our fabulous leads - pictures extremely welcome)!

If you haven’t yet seen Our Flag Means Death, what are you waiting for? Go watch it (on BBC iPlayer), then come back here and join us. But be warned, some of you may find yourself as hooked as we are 🎣.

You may have heard that this is a comedy about pirates and think it's not for you. But it’s actually a show about self-discovery, healing and found-family with a love story at its heart. The joint leads are both damaged by abusive backgrounds and want what the other has. The show is about their healing and their respective journeys. It’s tender, romantic, funny, emotionally intelligent and utterly refreshing. It subverts genre expectations. There is comedy, absurdity and a good amount of heartbreak and despair - sometimes in the same scene! The acting is outstanding (Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby especially). But the writing, music, costumes, sets, the sheer attention to detail – for a show with only 18 half-hour episodes it is still keeping us talking, two full threads and many re-watches later.

If you think this might appeal, do watch it and come back and talk to us. It would be lovely if more were to join our crew. But it's a show that needs time. The 2nd lead arrives in episode 3, so you need to give it at least 4 episodes as that’s when the tone changes and the main story starts. It still took me several more episodes to fully appreciate what I was watching, but by then I was hooked and had to immediately watch it all over again. If you like Good Omens, What We Do in the Shadows, Ghosts or even Bridgerton, this might be the show for you.

(I’ve kept this spoiler free, but if you scroll down you will no doubt find many, so beware!)

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5008593-our-flag-means-death-its-utterly-brilliant-and-i-am-obsessed?reply=135294204
Thread 2 : https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5076581-our-flag-means-death-thread-2-still-utterly-brilliant-and-we-are-still-obsessed?reply=136060611

I can't get on https://archiveofourown.org/
atm, just get an error message. Anyone having issues?

I can get on ok

Fixed it. Phew!

@TriceratopsRocks I took in "I've never dabbled in fanfiction..." in the style of "One does not simply walk into Mordor..."

You're well beyond dabbling woman.

😂

🤣🤣🤣 Now I am more than dabbling in fan fiction! I admit it. But this is my first time. I was a fan fiction virgin until I got into this show.

Not at the fan fiction stage...yet :D

I do have a question for those of you who have rewatched the series multiple times though.

I showed a friend the "Fun & Games" episode (my favourite) and there's an end credit scene with Anne, Mary and Buttons. Buttons is asked if there's "another Mary" on the ship and I can't remember his exact reply but it was something about the Revenge being a "knocking shop".

"What's that about?" asked my friend. "Dunno" I replied but then I thought, I bet I can find out.

What's your take on that after credit scene? Is there another "Mary"?

My friend loved it by the way and is working her way through Series One now :)

‘Mary’ is code for a gay man 🙂

It’s why Buttons replies that it’s a nonstop knocking shop on the Revenge.

That makes sense. I took it literally as Stede's wife's called Mary. Is there another "significant other" I was thinking but yes, that does make more more sense.

Cheers for that.

"Fun and Games" is probably my favourite episode too!

Though I also like the oranges one an awful lot

The one with the treasure hunt and the snakey snacks? Yeah, that's a brilliant one.

Was anyone else kind of freaked out by Blackbeard losing his beard? I can't remember the name of the episode, Act of Grace maybe? It's another favourite of mine mainly because the contrast is so startling. Taika's rather beautiful in any circumstance but the little boy lost folding socks is really quite a jolt, it reminds me of Samson and Delilah.

Ooh Fun and Games! It’s funny. I haven’t been able to watch the show lately due to several weeks of insane busyness followed by an overseas guest. Now I’ve finally had the chance to sit and enjoy our boys properly and that was next on my list. First I had to rewatch 2.3 because, well, how can I resist the gloriousness that is Merstede? Then it was on to 2.4.

I have to appreciate the very first look that Ed gives to Stede on waking. Is it desperate longing? Fear? I’m a sick kitten, help me? I can’t tell but I want to give him a big hug.

Chained, delirious Ed on deck in his gravy basket outfit, giving us a good look at those inner arm tattoos. Yum! As well as his jacket, he’s also removed the 2 gold chains he always wears as BB and these don’t go back on when he leaves the ship (or ever). Part of S2 is about him reconciling all the elements that make him Ed. Might removing the BB chains be about him no longer being chained to that persona?

Anne and Mary. We know this episode is based on Who’s Afraid of Virginia Wolf. The women treat our boys as entertainment, setting them up and mocking them. They claim to be the ‘adults’ but are actually playing childish games - demonstrating what damage the lack of good, honest communication does to a relationship. But they do come good at the end when they finally talk to each other.

The couch scene! Has to be one of my most rewatched bits. Ed is hiding again and Stede stands up for himself. I love Ed’s anger, and how quickly it disappears when the God of Romance tells him with such sincerity that “I love everything about you…“. We saw that Ed hates himself, but Stede knows Ed and yet loves all that he is. No wonder Ed melts.

How Ed goes from an exasperated ‘oh no not you again’ to wide eyed realisation when Buttons turns into a bird. Change is possible after all!

Other stuff:
Con knocks it out of the park
What is Wee John knitting? That peach square doesn’t appear to grow. He waggles his needles around he doesn’t actually seem to do any stitches.
Sandwich improv!
A nice look at Ed’s kraken ring when talking to ‘wolf’
Bitchy, irritable Ed 😄
I adore Stede’s hair in this episode and desperately want to play with it.

If anyone is interested in a potted history of Anne and Mary, there’s one here:
https://mashable.com/article/our-flag-means-death-anne-bonny-mary-read-zheng-yi-sao
And Gypsy Taylor’s comments about their costumes:
https://collider.com/our-flag-means-death-season-2-anne-bonny-gypsy-taylor-comments/

And some pics! I love pics!

This made me actual proper snort 😀 Can't even remember my life without gay fanfiction tbh 😀

It’s a bit ambiguous. There is ‘another Mary’. It’s Ed 😉

@TriceratopsRocks the sandwich - “don’t you want your sammie” 😀

Also Nathan breaking character and cracking up when Ed launches it in his face. I wonder why they didn’t re-shoot that. I’m glad they didn’t though!

In a previous episode Izzy gets hit by a sandwich - it’s all so absurd, the fact that these would make up a nice sandwich for a day trip, and then the physical comedy with it.

2.4, Yay!

I have some beard observations. I’m quoting from memory so might not be entirely accurate.

Mary R: What happened to your beard? I liked it when it was longer…
Translation: Why aren’t you being Blackbeard anymore? I preferred that identity.

Ed: I had the crazy notion to shave it off. Regretted it immediately
Translation: I fell in love and just wanted to be Edward. Then he left me.

Stede: For what it’s worth, I like your beard, the length…
Translation: I know you no longer want my opinion, but I like you being just Edward

Ed: …………………….. Thank you.
Translation: play it cool, play it cool…

On the couch:

Stede: Then you shaved your beard off, for me…
Translation: Then you gave up everything you are, signed the Act of Grace, threw away your entire identity - for me. I panicked. I’m not worth that kind of sacrifice.

Ed: The beard, again…
Translation: My identity, again. Blackbeard, again! Why can’t you let it go?

Ed: I’m sorry if my horrible naked chin disgusts you so much
Translation: I’m sorry if being just Edward is disgusting to you. I am aware I am unloveable just being me

Stede: I love your chin, naked or otherwise
Translation: I love you in any identity. I love you as Edward and Blackbeard, and any other version of you in between. My love for you is unconditional

Beard doing some heavy symbolic lifting in this scene.

Izzy observations…

He gives a whole raft of reasons as to why Ed shot him (Stede’s name, I said I loved him, a shark did it), but I think the only time Izzy comes close to understanding is when he’s drunk and cuts off the unicorn figurehead’s legs. Figureheads are meant to bring luck and it ‘didn’t do its job’. Izzy is identifying with the unicorn in this moment. He recognises he ‘didn’t do his job’ as Ed’s First Mate. Ed tells him in 2.1 that if he can’t do the job he will be replaced which is actually what leads him to become all weepy and Fang to hug him. It’s self-pity. But Izzy definitely recognises his own culpability in losing his leg, at least when drunk. What I don’t think he ever understands is how he didn’t do his job. It isn’t about following orders to throw plunder overboard. Not even close.

One thing I noticed only yesterday is the harpsichord music playing when Izzy is gifted the New Unicorn Leg is the exact music which plays in season one both times Ed looks at the red silk, leading to his childhood flashback. I’m not fully sure what to make of this yet, so would be interested to hear others’ ideas. It’s something to do with wanting soft things, male identity, change, ‘who even are you?’

The theme starts up again when Buttons is doing his bird ritual, and Ed says ‘people don’t change’. But then it morphs into a harpsichord version of the Gnossienne after the transmogrification. Amazing.

If all of this is too much for a Sunday morning, have resurrected Jesus instead.

@MrsJellybee Thanking you most kindly for Edward Christ Superstar.

And I'm glad you mentioned the symbolic beard chat. Soooo much subtext involved in those conversations. I also love how in the first conversation on the couch they start off as far squashed into the corners as possible - all that distance between them in S2 symbolising their lack of communication, which is what this whole episode is about after all.

There was more too, but RL stuff keeps getting in the way of my pirates! I will have to come back to them again later 😁

@MrsJellybee I want you to know that I am always, always here for photos of Ed manacled to a railing.

I think the New Unicorn thing is the point where Izzy hits rock bottom as a result of his own spite and bile, and is redeemed by the generosity of the crew. There's something about true selves buried under protective masks and rebirth. I can't express it very clearly because I am in the middle of a very late bedtime but something about seeing past your false self having convinced yourself for most of your life that it was your real self.

I know it's very difficult to stomach a redemption arc for Izzy because he was so terrible to Ed and everyone else previously but I think the show is very much about finding the lovable in very unlikely places.

Happy to serve. I’m always on the look out for different angles of this scene. I feel it will be my life’s work.

Yes, I think you’re right. The show is a judgment-free zone, really, despite our personal feelings. It operates outside of our own society’s moral codes. It says these things happened. Whether they were right or wrong is not the question. Can tomorrow be a better day with different choices and fewer mistakes in it? And the answer is nearly always yes. It’s about hope.

Is there something about Izzy losing his leg and being unable to cope symbolising his losing the life he knows as BBs 1st mate (and being unable to cope with that too)? He's lost the structure of his old life on BB's ship. His leg/his support has been cut out from under him. He's always been toxic and abusive. Cut off the leg, cut off the toxiticy of traditional piracy and the life that Izzy has cultivated for years. New leg, new regime and the chance of a new start? It's offering him stability again; support to cope under the new regime.

I'm also thinking of Jim's "He's our dick" and the crew giving him the unicorn leg. He's part of the crew and Stede's philosophy has rubbed off on the rest, so (perhaps because they don't know anything about his worst behaviour) they want to give him the support he will need to change, if he chooses to. The crew are offering him a chance of redemtion and Izzy goes along with it. I still maintain, though that his actual redemption doesn't start until his deathbed, as that's the first time he seems to recogise or admit to his behaviour. But 2.4 gives him a glimpse of what redemption looks like.

I mean, it's the beautiful leg of a mythical creature. And it was their figurehead. And they don't know quite how much of a See You Next Tuesday he actually was, as you say. So I definitely think it symbolises the shedding of something and a rebirth.

Side note: my favourite moment for sheer comedy in the whole of the series is actually when he screams "FUUUUUCK YOU" at the unicorn. It's the best delivery of a line I have ever seen. (Possibly apart from "You're no fuckin mermaid")