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Our Flag Means Death: Thread 3. It's still utterly brilliant. We are still obsessed.

966 replies

TriceratopsRocks · 21/06/2024 01:11

Ahoy again mateys! Set sail aboard thread 3 where we still wax lyrical about our favourite show, its cast, its music, fan edits, fan fiction and more 😁(there may also be just a little obsessing over our fabulous leads - pictures extremely welcome)!

If you haven’t yet seen Our Flag Means Death, what are you waiting for? Go watch it (on BBC iPlayer), then come back here and join us. But be warned, some of you may find yourself as hooked as we are 🎣.

You may have heard that this is a comedy about pirates and think it's not for you. But it’s actually a show about self-discovery, healing and found-family with a love story at its heart. The joint leads are both damaged by abusive backgrounds and want what the other has. The show is about their healing and their respective journeys. It’s tender, romantic, funny, emotionally intelligent and utterly refreshing. It subverts genre expectations. There is comedy, absurdity and a good amount of heartbreak and despair - sometimes in the same scene! The acting is outstanding (Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby especially). But the writing, music, costumes, sets, the sheer attention to detail – for a show with only 18 half-hour episodes it is still keeping us talking, two full threads and many re-watches later.

If you think this might appeal, do watch it and come back and talk to us. It would be lovely if more were to join our crew. But it's a show that needs time. The 2nd lead arrives in episode 3, so you need to give it at least 4 episodes as that’s when the tone changes and the main story starts. It still took me several more episodes to fully appreciate what I was watching, but by then I was hooked and had to immediately watch it all over again. If you like Good Omens, What We Do in the Shadows, Ghosts or even Bridgerton, this might be the show for you.

(I’ve kept this spoiler free, but if you scroll down you will no doubt find many, so beware!)

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5008593-our-flag-means-death-its-utterly-brilliant-and-i-am-obsessed?reply=135294204
Thread 2 : https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5076581-our-flag-means-death-thread-2-still-utterly-brilliant-and-we-are-still-obsessed?reply=136060611

Page 38 | Our Flag Means Death. It's utterly brilliant and I am obsessed! | Mumsnet

I'm sure I found a thread on this series a while ago, but now season 2 is out I've looked back and I can't find anything apart from the...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5008593-our-flag-means-death-its-utterly-brilliant-and-i-am-obsessed?reply=135294204

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Thread gallery
187
Isthisjustnormal · 21/06/2024 14:08

Just checking in: I’m only on my second watch and not got into the fanfic (yet!) so I’m a hear to listen and learn ;-)

MrsJellybee · 21/06/2024 14:30

Welcome, @Isthisjustnormal. I’m pretty new to the fandom too. I was a normal person until March 🙂. How is your second watch going? It was the second watch that really caused my hyper-fixation. You will get so much more out of it the second viewing.

I dabble in the fan-fic. @BeBraveLittlePenguin is our main crack dealer source for all things AO3. @TriceratopsRocks is also a fine connoisseur of our two favourite pirates in any universe.

If you scroll down here, there are a number of links to the best fanfics.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5076581-our-flag-means-death-thread-2-still-utterly-brilliant-and-we-are-still-obsessed?page=9

The one we’re all waiting for the update on is “Temptation ‘Verse”by Shearwater.

Here is ‘the sort’ of prequel - Up, down, turn around
https://archiveofourown.org/works/43672797/chapters/109819575

Here is the ongoing fic - ‘Constellationism https://archiveofourown.org/works/45617446/chapters/114787039

The writing and characterisation are exquisite.

We’re so glad you’re here.

Page 9 | Our Flag Means Death: Thread 2. Still utterly brilliant and we are still obsessed! | Mumsnet

Ahoy there mateys!  Hop aboard our ‘safe space ship’ thread 2, where we can continue to wax lyrical about our favourite show. If you haven’t yet...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5076581-our-flag-means-death-thread-2-still-utterly-brilliant-and-we-are-still-obsessed?page=9

TriceratopsRocks · 21/06/2024 14:53

MrsJellybee · 21/06/2024 14:04

My ‘Crew for Life’ t-shirt finally arrived! Gonna be rockin it on the school-run later 🏴‍☠️

Woohoo! So did mine 😁 It feels lovely and also fits exactly as I like it (I did try to take a selfie of me in it, but could barely hold the phone and take a photo at the same time so it didn't really work!).

Our Flag Means Death: Thread 3. It's still utterly brilliant. We are still obsessed.
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MrsJellybee · 21/06/2024 15:21

You have the v-neck like I do. It does fit better 🙂

TriceratopsRocks · 21/06/2024 15:33

Yes, it's like the one with the teal/green pirate ship I posted on the last thread. That and this are my 2 favourite t-shirts now. Fitted nicely and 100% cotton.

Be aware, @Isthisjustnormal (love the username - very apt on this thread 😁) and any other newcomers here, not only could you find yourself spending more time than you might expect enjoying this show, you might also find yourself spending money on merch too!

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CarpeDiem83 · 21/06/2024 16:02

Hi all!

Can't believe we are on thread 3 😁 I was a normal person until March too......now I spend an embarrassing amount of time reading fanfics and am poised to order the lighthouse tote bag someone shared on the last thread. And that insta pic of Rhys.......... 😳

I've found a couple of people in RL who have enjoyed the show, but seemingly a normal amount, so I can't share the depths of my obsession. Although perhaps they are thinking the same!

MrsJellybee · 21/06/2024 16:11

@CarpeDiem83 am poised to order the lighthouse tote bag

Can’t possibly comment on whether I also ordered this, but if I had, and found that the medium was actually quite small, I would be advising others to purchase the larger one…Purely hypothetical, of course 🤭

TriceratopsRocks · 21/06/2024 16:39

@CarpeDiem83 the only people I know in RL are DD and her friend, and I'm now the embarrassing mum who has probably made a show they loved 'uncool' 🤣. A friend I had high hopes for keeps saying she thinks it sounds brilliant but still hasn't got around to actually watching the thing! 🤦‍♀️ I am clearly not persuasive enough.

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lizziesaurusx · 21/06/2024 18:47

Thank you for the new thread and the glorious selection of pictures! My contribution to the messy bun theme, plus, for balance, one of Stede looking magnificent.

Our Flag Means Death: Thread 3. It's still utterly brilliant. We are still obsessed.
Our Flag Means Death: Thread 3. It's still utterly brilliant. We are still obsessed.
MrsBruin · 21/06/2024 18:54

The tee-shirts look lovely.
Hurrah! I’m home alone this weekend and the thing I was meant to be helping at tomorrow just got cancelled. Let the next re-watch begin!
Does anyone even know what normal is anymore? My DH asked what I’d done with his wife the other day after I used some rather ‘robust’ language! I said she was a bit boring and wouldn’t be coming back.

lizziesaurusx · 21/06/2024 19:05

Mine too and I love it! Quite relieved about that given the postage costs. V neck for me too. Thank you @TriceratopsRocks for the link. I now have the beginnings of a merch collection and am debating my next purchase.

I've also spotted my first crew member in the wild! I was dropping my son off at the station last week and a woman came through the barriers wearing the crew for life tshirt. Obviously I dashed over to identify myself as a fellow obsessive, but we had to rush for my son's train so time was short. I was the first person that had recognised her tshirt and she did look a bit surprised. How did the t shirts get on on the school run, @MrsJellybee and @TriceratopsRocks

Our Flag Means Death: Thread 3. It's still utterly brilliant. We are still obsessed.
TriceratopsRocks · 21/06/2024 19:05

@MrsBruin I have absolutely no idea what normal looks like any more. Apart from my Buffy sojourn in that month or so around Christmas I've been decidedly 'not normal' since September/October! But it's still making me very happy so I'm sticking with it! And delightedly wearing my new t-shirt 😁

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TriceratopsRocks · 21/06/2024 19:11

My school run is in the car, but I'm currently out walking around my village wearing it, and can you believe I haven't seen a soul. Just lots of sheep and a few rabbits. But unlike 'wolf' they aren't talking to me ☹️ I'm wondering whether I should wash it tonight so I can wear it again tomorrow when I'll see a lot more people.

And thank you for your contribution, @lizziesaurusx . That's a beautiful Ed and one of my favourite Stede looks 🥰 For the first time today, DH asked me how much I'd spent (on Rhys' book). Thank god he didn't ask about the t-shirts 🤣.

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TriceratopsRocks · 21/06/2024 19:15

Oh, and @lizziesaurusx that's so exciting meeting a fellow fan in the wild! I'm hoping these t-shirts will help with that. I saw on Facebook someone wants to arrange a fan meet up in Hyde Park, but sadly it's on a day I'm busy.

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MrsJellybee · 21/06/2024 20:00

I would be very surprised if anyone at my DD’s school knew about the show. The area I live in is not known for ‘soft things’. I have yet to see a crew member in the wild.

lizziesaurusx · 21/06/2024 20:04

TriceratopsRocks · 21/06/2024 19:15

Oh, and @lizziesaurusx that's so exciting meeting a fellow fan in the wild! I'm hoping these t-shirts will help with that. I saw on Facebook someone wants to arrange a fan meet up in Hyde Park, but sadly it's on a day I'm busy.

I know, I'm just a bit worried that I was perhaps too overexcited 😬but who wouldn't be?! I hope you have more luck with tshirt recognition tomorrow than you've had today with the sheep.

Which Facebook group is having the meetup? I'd love to go to something like that, thought I'm a bit put off by photos on Twitter from a recent meetup at a comic con (maybe London?) which makes it look like very much a young person thing - almost everyone looks like they're in their twenties and I wouldn't want to feel out of place.

TriceratopsRocks · 21/06/2024 20:13

@lizziesaurusx this is the Facebook post I saw

www.facebook.com/share/p/zLy7qvjPXYrtfKAi/

The people who shared photos after Basingstoke seemed to be more our age. We need a meet up that several of us can get to, so we can be sure of a bit of Mumsnet solidarity!

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lizziesaurusx · 21/06/2024 20:26

TriceratopsRocks · 21/06/2024 20:13

@lizziesaurusx this is the Facebook post I saw

www.facebook.com/share/p/zLy7qvjPXYrtfKAi/

The people who shared photos after Basingstoke seemed to be more our age. We need a meet up that several of us can get to, so we can be sure of a bit of Mumsnet solidarity!

Thank you, will have a look. That's reassuring about the post-Basingstoke photos, and yes definitely to the Mumsnet solidarity - that would make it far less intimidating. I've never been to anything remotely like that and it would feel like entering into a whole different level of obsession. The people in the photos all look delighted to be there though so I'm sure it's worth it!

MrsJellybee · 21/06/2024 21:20

The Hyde Park meet-up looks lovely. I like the suggested ideas of flag-making and quizzes. I do like to have an aim. It’s the August Bank Holiday weekend though…

I know what you mean @lizziesaurusx Sometimes I think I’ve appropriated something that shouldn’t really belong to me. But then, the show belongs to anyone who loves it, I guess.

TriceratopsRocks · 21/06/2024 21:59

I'd definitely go to something like that, despite also never having gone to anything like it before. I do think that fans of this show are likely to be a friendly bunch, simply because of the nature of the show. It's just a shame I can't do this particular one.

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TriceratopsRocks · 22/06/2024 01:47

Well for the first time in ages I’ve managed to continue my latest re-watch. Yay!! First I watched 1.9 again because, well, it’s been ages, its 1.9, and I never need an excuse to watch that one again. Things I thought about this time through (apologies if I’m repeating myself too much!):

The Revenge has mostly been in ‘muppet’ genre until now, but this is the episode where things become real. Their fantasy modes have been Stede’s dreamy adventure pirate lifestyle with his dashing 'friend', and Ed’s been daring to pretend he isn’t the unworthy person he’s always believed himself to be. But now they’re facing reality and consequences. They’ve been dragged out of their little muppet bubble and the stakes and subseqent emotions have ramped up massively.

Stede admits to stabbing Nigel rather than telling the truth. Why? I guess no one will believe him if he changes his story now so he might as well stick with the narrative. But when he’s in the middle of his breakdown I’m always a little surprised that he doesn’t say it was an accident.

Ed saying “you all look the same” when talking about Nigel to Chauncey 😂

Stede crying “I don’t want to die”. This always gets to me. What a change from 1.1 when he didn’t know if he wanted to live. But he’s out of the bubble now and reality has hit.

Ed barely acknowledges Izzy; doesn’t speak to him the whole episode. After the punch, Izzy keeps talking but Ed is ignoring him completely - his focus is entirely on Stede. He barely glances when Izzy speaks to him during signing the Act of Grace. Izzy is an irrelevance to Ed. He's the guy shouting “I object” at the wedding but everyone ignores him.

“You don’t have to do this”. Stede willing to die so Ed can be free (ish). Ed giving up his freedom so Stede can live. All that wedding imagery we’ve already discussed.

How happy Ed sounds when he says “We got caught, there is not escape”. He’s with Stede, having a relaxing honeymoon holiday at navy camp and that’s enough for him right now.

Ed’s right arm after the kiss. I blame @ExtraOnions for pointing this out to me but once seen, you can’t unsee it so I’m sharing the joy!

How scared and sad Stede looks after Ed goes off to “mug a guy for a dingy”. That is a truly tormented man. Reality has bitten and Ed either can’t see it or chooses not to. Is Ed clinging to his muppet bubble or can he really not read Stede’s increasing panic? We know from 1.6 and 2.5 that Ed can’t distinguish laughter from screams. Is Ed’s obliviousness to Stede’s distress from the beach scene onwards part of his neurodiversity as well as him getting swept away on his own excitement and maybe trying to maintain that bubble?

Stede standing there waiting for Chauncey to shoot him. He really believed he was going to die and decided not to do anything to stop it. He even makes himself a little taller. Unlike on the ship, he’s decided to face his death head on. That scream after Chauncey shoots himself is devastating.

Perfect day. Yes I cried (again) when morning came and Ed was still waiting on the docks.

God I love this episode! Sorry that was really far too much for one post, but I’m leaving it all here anyway 😁. Have some pics to make up for that wall of text!

Our Flag Means Death: Thread 3. It's still utterly brilliant. We are still obsessed.
Our Flag Means Death: Thread 3. It's still utterly brilliant. We are still obsessed.
Our Flag Means Death: Thread 3. It's still utterly brilliant. We are still obsessed.
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MrsJellybee · 22/06/2024 08:32

Amazing post to wake up to @TriceratopsRocks I hope you don’t mind if I build on some observations and I also have some questions. One in particular that’s been bothering me for a while.

Sorry, folks, this is long.

Stede admits to stabbing Nigel rather than telling the truth. Why?
I completely agree it’s because Stede thinks he wouldn’t be believed. What is interesting is it doesn’t matter if he’s not believed. ‘Blackbeard’ has already confessed to the murder of Nigel. Ed is prepared to die in Stede’s place and I think Chauncey would possibly accept it if Stede agreed BB did it, though it’s clear Chauncey doesn’t believe BB. However, Stede won’t let Ed die for him, but on top of this, Chauncey pushes Stede’s buttons. Says he knows Stede couldn’t possibly have done it as he doesn’t have it in him. I haven’t re-watched recently, but I think there’s a flashback to boy Stede, and it’s that which makes Stede say ‘I did it’. It’s the same thing that makes him kill Ned Low. He still wants to do masculinity ‘correctly’, and what better way to do so, in Stede’s mind, than to murder a foe. It’s a warped psychology that makes him confess without further clarification.

Stede crying I don’t want to die Oh, this. And the change from episode 1. Ed’s journey struck me recently in this regard too: 1.4 - ‘Death… I haven’t tried that yet’ / ‘Death it is…’ / ‘We’re gonners…’ . Shift to 1.8 ‘Better alive than dead!’. Ed and Stede now want to live, and it’s all because the other is alive in the world.

Izzy- a white man who has bargained with the British for a man of colour to be ‘handed over to him’ as payment for services to the Crown ~shudder~. There’s more I want to say about Ed and race over the course of the show, but I’ll leave it there for now.
Just to add Ed’s ‘he betrayed us’. Jack clarifies in 1.8 that Izzy only betrayed Stede to the British, but to Ed, that is still betraying ‘Us’, because Stede is he, and he is Stede, and ‘either was the other’s mine’. They are one.

The way Stede says ‘China? That’s quite far away’ is delivered with utter awesomeness.

I love Ed, but he can’t listen for toffee. Or understand nonverbal cues. The neurodivergence is strong in this one. Trust me, I say that without prejudice.

This is now my question (sorry for the long ramble). Is there any way, any way, the Chauncey event is a night terror? An hallucination? A figment of Stede’s extremely troubled mind? Because it’s the only way I can square the circle. Especially after S2 and no mention of what happened with Chauncey.

Evidence: no-one else sees Chauncey, he arrives in nightclothes and appears drunk. Stede is asleep when he arrives. At one point, Stede says ‘just breathe’ seemingly to Chauncey, but is it in fact to himself. Is it a panic attack?

The words Chauncey says mirror exactly that stream-of-consciousness that must be running through Stede’s mind. Yes, Chauncey is a device here, but is in fact only a device? Further evidence…this is what Stede does when he feels guilt. He projected Nigel in the same way in episode two as an external manifestation of his guilty conscience.

Finally, the way Chauncey dies as a mirror to his brother. No-one appears to hear the shots, Ed doesn’t hear anything. There is no commotion later either, and Ed is on the jetty all night. Stede then appears to walk all night in his nightclothes, barefoot back home. Does he sleepwalk home?

He does remember the event in the future as when he is talking in 1.10 about being the ‘cause of death’ it flashes back to both Badminton brothers. But was it real? Does Stede think it was real? I like to think it wasn’t. I think it makes for better drama that this is all Stede. His mind ‘invents’ the situation out of guilt, but mainly to get out of running away with Ed. He’s not ready. He hasn’t yet finished his character arc.

Feel free to prove me wrong. I’ll take on all comers 🤣😆

Right. Must get up and do weekend life.

Phineyj · 22/06/2024 10:26

I think the "hallucination" explanation is brilliant, actually. Definitely head canon for me now. You are rather brilliant.

DJ47 · 22/06/2024 10:37

Still here- morning!!
(Hope you all read that in Stede’s voice 😉)

Loving the photos 🏴‍☠️☠️

CarpeDiem83 · 22/06/2024 13:01

MrsJellybee · 21/06/2024 16:11

@CarpeDiem83 am poised to order the lighthouse tote bag

Can’t possibly comment on whether I also ordered this, but if I had, and found that the medium was actually quite small, I would be advising others to purchase the larger one…Purely hypothetical, of course 🤭

Aha, thanks for the (hypothetical) tip! The thing holding me back was deciding which size and checking the measurements!

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