Our Flag Means Death: Thread 3. It's still utterly brilliant. We are still obsessed.

[TriceratopsRocks]

Ahoy again mateys! Set sail aboard thread 3 where we still wax lyrical about our favourite show, its cast, its music, fan edits, fan fiction and more 😁(there may also be just a little obsessing over our fabulous leads - pictures extremely welcome)!

If you haven’t yet seen Our Flag Means Death, what are you waiting for? Go watch it (on BBC iPlayer), then come back here and join us. But be warned, some of you may find yourself as hooked as we are 🎣.

You may have heard that this is a comedy about pirates and think it's not for you. But it’s actually a show about self-discovery, healing and found-family with a love story at its heart. The joint leads are both damaged by abusive backgrounds and want what the other has. The show is about their healing and their respective journeys. It’s tender, romantic, funny, emotionally intelligent and utterly refreshing. It subverts genre expectations. There is comedy, absurdity and a good amount of heartbreak and despair - sometimes in the same scene! The acting is outstanding (Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby especially). But the writing, music, costumes, sets, the sheer attention to detail – for a show with only 18 half-hour episodes it is still keeping us talking, two full threads and many re-watches later.

If you think this might appeal, do watch it and come back and talk to us. It would be lovely if more were to join our crew. But it's a show that needs time. The 2nd lead arrives in episode 3, so you need to give it at least 4 episodes as that’s when the tone changes and the main story starts. It still took me several more episodes to fully appreciate what I was watching, but by then I was hooked and had to immediately watch it all over again. If you like Good Omens, What We Do in the Shadows, Ghosts or even Bridgerton, this might be the show for you.

(I’ve kept this spoiler free, but if you scroll down you will no doubt find many, so beware!)

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5008593-our-flag-means-death-its-utterly-brilliant-and-i-am-obsessed?reply=135294204
Thread 2 : https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5076581-our-flag-means-death-thread-2-still-utterly-brilliant-and-we-are-still-obsessed?reply=136060611

Snowflake?

It’s Stede. It’s probably a tureen.

For some reason I am unfeasibly invested in this. I just sat here and made myself 2 triangles, which I have concertinered (on the long edge) and made little holes on the edges. I can stand them up and they make a triangular mountain with holes in it. Hmmm. But I have 2, which I can put together and potentially they make a pair of pretty wings, however I can see the holes would impact flyability/glidability so I think that is unlikely. Lots more could be petals of a flower or a star. but Stede only had two. Ah well. I still think that was 10 minutes well spent. Maybe I should make more and concertina them in a different direction? These things are important.

They are important @TriceratopsRocks keep going!

There is something about Constellationism that makes us do these things. I spent a while a few months ago doing a complete timeline from 9.30am on the Tuesday when they met (we're currently late on the Sun evening, still not quite at a full week), and when a fellow obsessive and I meet up, obviously we go to Bageriet 😀

Oh, thank god it’s not just me. I’ve been googling origami for the last hour.

“Disturb the universe, you mean?”

Doesn’t this trigger a thought in Stede? Constellations, Ursa Major/Minor? Stars…

Ed is clearly extremely skilled at origami, considering he made 2 perfect peonies from a restaurant menu. That is probably unsurprising for an artist of his calibre. I will try and think more on Stede's efforts this evening.

Then again, I’m thinking it’s Stede. And that line’s from TS Eliot.

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/poems/44212/the-love-song-of-j-alfred-prufrock

@TriceratopsRocks "Did anyone ever work out who/what Ruthie represents? We glimpse another pig too. "

Was talking to my friends who named their daughter Ruth. The name Ruth means Compassionate Friend and I thought of this thread.

I also thought about Circe, a minor Greek goddess and the daughter of the oceanic water nymph Perse who could turn sailors into pigs.

Circe's legend is told in Homer's Odyssey when Odysseus visits her island of Aeaea where she turns his crew into pigs before telling him how to cross the ocean to enter the underworld, Hades. Parallels to the Gravy Basket abound!

As for the time line and other commonalities. While Ed lays below deck Stede boards and tries to find him. Izzy tells Stede that Ed was left on a beach, meanwhile the crew eat soup. All parallels as Ed remains unconscious but possibly aware, possibly catching snippets. You've already covered the Merstede light and water parallels here so I'll finish by asking. Which compassionate friend is Ruthie representing? Perhaps Stede himself? And who's the other pig in the pen with Ruthie?

My Dh really liked it - I think he's come to terms with the fact that if I get the choice, it will probably be either pirates or pirate-adjacent. Still slowly working through Taika's back catalogue. The spacesuit scene was great - and did you spot the astronaut pjs in an earlier scene? I like to think Rhys was especially pleased with the space themes.

Your timeline sounds fantastic - if you still have a copy, I'm sure we'd all love to pore over it. And to know whether Bageriet is as lovely as it sounds?

@2pence Izzy tells Stede that Ed was left on a beach, meanwhile the crew eat soup. All parallels as Ed remains unconscious but possibly aware, possibly catching snippets.

I love the soup parallel - I've never been completely sure what the timeline is for how long Ed has been below deck under his mini-shroud and whether, in the context of magic realism, we're meant to think he has literally died (as he says in 2.7) or whether he reaches the brink of death physically but doesn't die, because the point is that he's emotionally reborn? Depending on the timeline, would it be realistic for him to have survived? The soup parallel in the gravy basket suggests he's still aware on some level.

Also 'Edward Teach, born on a beach' - and the process of Ed's rebirth begins when he's washed up on a beach! Apologies if that's already been pointed out.

The timeline is in a blue legal notebook somewhere, alas. Don't think it was very comprehensive though - Tues meet, Wed meeting at Tate Modern, Thurs shop and clothes swap, Fri Bageriet, Sat Strictly and Sun photo shoot. A whole lot of words for not very long, and glorious!
(I think there is a slight time hitch somewhere around Wed/Thurs with Ed talking to Edie but David Jenkins gets away with it so...)
And yes Bageriet is glorious. The sirapsnitt they have at the hotel are clearly from Bageriet and I eat them by the bag, utterly wonderful. We've never tried the princess cake though - it is a heart attack wrapped in green marzipan 😀

Sorry, Greenwich not TM 😀

Kristian is doing an Instagram live tomorrow with Nathan as his guest! 9pm. Always good fun those two

That sounds fun, thanks!

Anyone planning to watch Time Bandits?

@BeBraveLittlePenguin Thank you - I hadn't realised it was such a short time - probably because the Strictly night seems like it goes on for days. So much emotional intensity in such a short span of days.

That's very gratifying about Bageriet - I hope to make a pilgrimage there one day. I've just been drooling over the menu - the kanelbullar and gaffelkakor in particular, and I love that bread with blackcurrants is categorised as 'every day' whereas bread with lingonberries is strictly for weekends.

@BillStickersIsInnocent Anyone planning to watch Time Bandits?

Possibly. I’ll need to get an Apple TV subscription though.

Yes I’ll need to renew too. I do need something new to watch though and it does look good.

I’ve just watched 2.8 again. The way Ed looks at Stede at the very end after he says “it’s a fixer upper…got good bones”. All the love in that look.

@BillStickersIsInnocent At this point, I think watching Time Bandits is a medical necessity for me.

@BillStickersIsInnocent Ed’s look is so soft there. He’s so relaxed finally. So in love. And he knows Stede’s words are a comment of their relationship. It’s not perfect. It will need work. But the foundations are strong.

We talk a lot about how Ed looks at Stede for obvious reasons, but look at Stede gazing at at Ed here…🥰

Does anybody know why the final episode is called Mermen?

@CarlaH I guess Stede was a Merman for Ed in 2.3 when he rescues him psychologically. In 2.7, Stede after being told about the vision says he hopes Ed will return the favour one day, which Ed does in 2.8 by coming to Stede’s and Zheng’s aid on the beach. And I think that is the wider context, because in the final showdown, the entire crew are ‘mermen’ and merwomen, rescuing each other. It’s about being there for each other, I think. The ending also, Ed and Stede are still by the sea ‘mer’, but are also on land, ‘men’. They have found a happy medium in which to live together.

Does anyone else have a take?

Does it relate to Ed's vision of Stede plus Ed rising out of the sea in his leathers maybe. Was that the same episode?