Our Flag Means Death: Thread 2. Still utterly brilliant and we are still obsessed!

[TriceratopsRocks]

Ahoy there mateys! Hop aboard our ‘safe space ship’ thread 2, where we can continue to wax lyrical about our favourite show.

If you haven’t yet seen Our Flag Means Death, what are you waiting for? Do go watch it (on BBC iPlayer) and then come back here and join us.

You may have heard that this is a comedy about pirates and think that's not for you. But it’s actually about self-discovery, healing and found-family with a love story at its heart. It does begin as a sort of pirate workplace comedy, but in episode 4 the tone changes and that’s where the main story really starts. The joint leads are both damaged by abusive backgrounds and think they want what the other has. The show is about their healing and their respective journeys. It’s tender, romantic, funny, emotionally intelligent and utterly refreshing. It subverts genre expectations. There is comedy, absurdity and a good amount of heartbreak and despair - sometimes in the same scene! The acting is outstanding (Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby especially). But the writing, music, costumes, sets, the sheer attention to detail – for a show with only 18 half-hour episodes it is still keeping us talking, a full thread and many re-watches later. Can you tell how much I love it?

If you think this might appeal, do watch it, then come back and talk to us. It would be lovely if more were to join our crew. But be aware it's a show that needs time. The 2nd lead doesn’t arrive until the end of episode 3 and that’s when the main story starts. You need to give it at least 4 episodes. It then took me several more to fully appreciate what I was watching but then I was hooked - and had to immediately watch it all over again. If you like Good Omens, What We Do in the Shadows, Ghosts or even Bridgerton, this might be the show for you.

(I’ve kept this spoiler free, but if you scroll down you will no doubt find many, so beware!)

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5008593-our-flag-means-death-its-utterly-brilliant-and-i-am-obsessed?reply=135294204

Following! I need somewhere to enthuse about this amazing show, brutally cut down in its prime

Welcome, @CarterBeatsTheDevil .

Hi all!

I found this show a few weeks ago from reading thread 1 and have been lurking since. So thank you for introducing me to this fabulous show, but also (lighthearted) curses for sparking the biggest obsession with a fictional world that I've had for ages......years......maybe ever.

Not sure if shared already but this is one of my current favourite post series 2 fanfic - the author is posting a short chapter a day for 100 days (currently at 61). There's not too much peril/angst but it is NSFW/explicit in parts so be warned!

archiveofourown.org/works/54404716/chapters/137809144

Ahoy there! So glad you have joined us. Thank you for the fic rec - I'm also enjoying that one :)

Right, fan fiction

I read a lot of short stories and some longer form chapter based stuff. If I enjoy something by one writer, I'll read their other fic and then move on to works they have bookmarked by other authors. All the writers here have other works I've enjoyed just as much as those I've linked.

I like ‘talking things through', I'm happy with a bit of angst but don't like them to fight. I like hurt/comfort fic, eg Stede looking after Ed in a storm. I like it when authors get the voices right, so I can see and hear the characters I know in the writing.

I'm happy with explicit stuff but I know not everyone is, so I've included ratings below. Teen and general are safe for work. Mature can be borderline. Explicit is what you'd expect but might only be a small part of a much longer work. Not all explicit is the same so always read the tags. There is plenty of stuff out there that I won't read/have stopped reading part way through.

So, here are some that I enjoyed:

Short stories

Dear Ed (sorry wrong chat) (by chaotic neutral knitter). Canon compliant.
Some of Stede's letters are found by Mary's book club. I loved this concept :) Teen rating
archiveofourown.org/works/52702387

Impure Thoughts (some) (by chaotic neutral knitter)
Based around S1E6. What's going on in BB’s head. Canon divergent. Mature rating due to Lucius's sketchbook.
archiveofourown.org/works/41502468/chapters/104083827

Look Back (by YellowMustard)
Innkeepers era. Stede tells Ed the story of Orpheus and Eurydice. Mature.
archiveofourown.org/works/54374248

‘Cause I Love You Babe (by Jodalyn). Innkeepers era. Talking it through. Teen rating
archiveofourown.org/works/47484526

Medium length stories

Birthday Boys (by YellowMustard)
Part 1 (Connecting the Dots) Innkeepers era. Ed doesn't know his birthday so they decide on a date and celebrate. Stede writes birthday cards to Ed. Explicit (but you can just stop reading when the sex starts and move to part 2).
archiveofourown.org/works/54684727/chapters/138586354
Part 2 (Over and above). The Revenge is on its way to the birthday celebrations. A series of letters between Stede and Lucius (and Ed). Mature.
archiveofourown.org/works/55816438

Ink and Ichor (by Nervousjester)
Linked before. Modern AU. Stede, Mary and Doug attend Lucius's art class. Ed is the nude model. Explicit. I was wary of the concept, but it's beautiful.
archiveofourown.org/works/45019654/chapters/113273131

Long Stories

The Long and Winding Road Home (by joannabobanna) Linked before.
Post cannon adventure with Revenge crew and more of BBs old crew. Teen rating (linked before)
archiveofourown.org/works/53598247/chapters/135675664

Chasing Storms (by nervousjester). What if Izzy was already gone from the Revenge when Ed returned after S1E9? Lots of talking it through. This was written before S2 had aired. Mature rating.
archiveofourown.org/works/39594237/chapters/99113349
(There are 2 other works linked to this fic. One is an epilogue (part 3) which is lovely. The other is an optional explicit chapter that comes between chapters 29 and 30 (part 2).

The Tolling Bells (by nervousjester) Linked before. AU, mostly set in the afterlife. My absolute favourite. It's nearly 100k words but I've never yet been able to take a break when reading it. Explicit but you can skip the 2 sex scenes.
archiveofourown.org/works/52183231/chapters/131991523

I'd better stop there or I'll be posting links for ever! Hope you find some here you enjoy :) I'd love to read more of your favourites too.

I was also intending to link here the 4 excellent recommendations by @PhineyJ from the old thread (for ease of finding them again) but as I'm on the app atm I can't. If someone else wants to link, please do. Otherwise I can link them later. Post was Wednesday at 22.24

OK, fic recs people (copied across from other thread but I have added more as I have TOO MUCH PIRATE BRAIN ROT).

These are to my taste. Might not be to everybody's. They're all explicit in places (some in a lot of places), violent in places (although no more than the show really) and if you read 'No stranger to monsters', please read the tags and warnings carefully first. None (except the Princess Bride one) are suitable for reading at work unless you work from home! And then you'll get nothing done... don't blame me 😉

I like long, multi chapter fiction with lots of character development, some respect for history and a sense of place. And a happy or at least happy-ish ending.

'Semaphore' I think particularly captures the show's mixture of high drama and complete silliness. And in 'No Stranger to Monsters' Ed gets a lovely new outfit. Hell or High Water is loooong... novel-length and with a sequel in synopsis form to boot. Plus a number of original characters, so avoid if that's not your thing. I thought they really added to it though. 'Love led us here' makes some use of the real history, rather well, and uses season 2 in flashback/dream sequences. There is a bit of folksy American phrasing (e.g. prior for before, anyways for anyway etc but that does appear to be the author's actual dialect). They're all set roughly in the correct time period (I'm not keen on AUs).

Hell or High Water by Mottlemoth:
https://archiveofourown.org/works/38102629/chapters/95179876
I've read this again and again, finding new things in it each time. Kudos to author for realistic children, among many other things I liked.

Semaphore by komodobits:
https://archiveofourown.org/works/39353175/chapters/98484018
I had to work up to reading the naval battle as it really is rather gory. The author kindly signposts that it can be skipped though...

Love led us here by revanchistsuperstar:
https://archiveofourown.org/works/41658585/chapters/104496756
Historical, silly, tender, really puts thought into where Stede and Ed came from and are going to.

No stranger to monsters by thriftshopcrush:
https://archiveofourown.org/works/39047328/chapters/97674906
Sets up a truly horrible situation but what an excuse to then solve it.

And a shorter, Princess Bride, homage, for those that like that kind of thing (teen/work safe), by darcylindbergh (although if you then explore the rest of her stuff, be warned it is exceedingly smutty):
A kissing story
https://archiveofourown.org/works/37874785
A lot is contained in this short piece.

Have said that, if you can tolerate AUs, these two I thought were kind of amazing:
Mid-Century Modern, by skrifores:
https://archiveofourown.org/works/43084236/chapters/108268824
Stede is a Kiwi with a trust fund and a quite a few ethical conundrums.

In Favor with their Stars by mxmollusca:
https://archiveofourown.org/works/41333706/chapters/103642158
This is without exception, the oddest piece of writing I have ever read in any fandom but somehow it works -- the author set themselves a real challenge here and incredibly, it comes off. If you have teenagers overly fond of AI, this is where it could end...!

I'd also like to vouch for In Favour With Their Stars, btw. It's definitely strange but utterly brilliant.

I mentioned in the previous thread I was deciding whether to ask my sister to watch OFMD. She’s a very sensible unromantic person in the best possible way. Not like me at all. Well, I did ask her to watch with all of the usual warnings and advice. She’s been a bit slow getting around to each episode. I felt I was mithering her a bit, asking where she was up to. She said she was ‘enjoying’ it though. Described the show as ‘tender’. Last night she said she would finish 1.7 and watch 1.8 / 1.9 this morning.

I’ve been out all morning and not checked my phone. Just picked up two messages. One after watching 1.8 where she’s gone borderline hysterical over The Chain sequence, plus ‘You came back /Never left’. About 30 minutes later, another message after watching 1.9 in which she’s gone absolutely feral 🤣. She’s sent about twenty questions that she wants answers to right now! It’s been an amazingly vicarious thing experiencing it all again with someone watching for the first time.

She said she can’t bring herself to watch 1.10 yet. I cannot believe this show has brought down my sister. She is now deeply ‘unwell’. 😍

Oh that's fantastic MrsJ, now you have someone in RL to obsess about it with :) Is your sister on here, do you know? You may or may not want to let on! 😁

I mentioned it to another friend yesterday, or rather DH did 😲 so then I explained. I'm not sure if it will be her thing. But he told her how much I love it. Hmmmm. 🤔 We will see.

I'm thinking of going back to the start again after my last attempt at a full rewatch went a bit haywire 😆

@TriceratopsRocks no, my sis isn’t on Mumsnet. She wouldn’t have the time. I’m still pleasantly reeling that her first message started ‘’Woah!!!!!!! 😍’’

I mentioned it to one of my best friends the other day too. She hadn’t heard of OFMD. Surprising considering her GO obsession. Keeping my fingers crossed for another convert.

So I have just watched the pilot again. This episode has grown on me so much.

Stede is such a fish out of water, trying his best to be positive, enthusiastic, to lead the crew, when we can see how vulnerable and alone he is feeling. He's not even sure he wants to live. He’s so open; he really does wear his heart on his sleeve. I love how he tries his best to be “Dad” to the crew with craft projects and bedtime stories, wanting to give them a firmer structure. And the contrasting recollections of his family; at first hostile, then later (when he's feeling emotional) he sees them much more fondly. He's so brave, pulling himself together to read the crew, his new family, a bedtime story. “If I can help this crew grow as people, then I've succeeded in being a pirate captain.”. Well he certainly did that. I'm in awe at the change in him over the 2 series.

Other things I love are the training from Jim and Olu - showing Stede a move he can manage, and without hurting him. And it's interesting that Frenchie is the one most riled by the racism of the English officers when he's the one who was in service, and we see acting wonderfully, sarcastically deferential to the aristocrats in 1.5. I also noticed they rigged up a sun shade while they were having their craft afternoon :) It's the only time they ever did that. Might have come in handy when the English hostage is burning up in the sun later on!

But my main take was; how on earth did I not see how utterly gorgeous Stede is the first time I watched it? I really didn't. Why? I must have been blind.

Look at him! I need to give him a big hug.

Pilot. - ‘Some of us will come back looking fine, but in reality will be mentally devastated’

How that line haunts me now. For both Stede and Ed.

Trauma is mentioned again when Stede has the crew doing crafts. Stede mentions how it helps them. The idea that art, fun, creativity can help with trauma is exactly what Blackbeard is trying to do with his frankfurter clouds and mooning over Stede’s trinkets. And he’s met with Izzy who has zero imagination. And it’s killing him and why he thinks he ‘hasn’t tried death yet’ and it’s all ‘so fuckin boring’. Then Stede comes along who thinks exactly like he does with his clothes swapping fun and ‘We need to be a lighthouse!’ Stede thinks in metaphor like Ed does and understands the value of art. It’s all there in the pilot. All the themes.

I realised recently DJ was one of the officers a the table. I think he’s also the one who rows back. I love that.

I realised recently DJ was one of the officers a the table. I think he’s also the one who rows back. I love that.

Yes he is! Also Fernando Frias - one of the directors is the bandit eating the orange who kills Jim’s family, and Alex Sherman- one of the writers is part of the English officers in the Road to Moscow scene. Then of course, the leads kids are all in it, and DJ’s then wife. Quite the family effort!

Alex Sherman is the naked bottom at the start of that scene 😆. And Hellcat Maggie! She's great. I didn't know about Fernando Frias.

Alex Sherman is the naked bottom at the start of that scene 😆. And Hellcat Maggie! She's great. I didn't know about Fernando Frias.

We do see his face before that though 🤣🤣

@MrsJellybee I cannot believe this show has brought down my sister. She is now deeply ‘unwell’

I'm so envious that you have someone to obsess with in real life! I hope your GO-loving friend will love it too. I convinced a friend to have a second go but she didn’t see what I see in it, even second time round. I’m not sure how far she watched – she did get as far as Blackbeard and a Mary flashback (she would’ve liked to see more of Mary). But it’s like we’ve watched a different show – she saw the clever genre-swapping that we love on this thread as clunky and meaning it falls short of being fully satisfying in any genre. She didn’t get the appeal of the romance (I think she didn’t watch far enough to see it develop properly) and she thought the set and the effects looked cheap and unconvincing. She loves FOTC and Wilderpeople so I thought she’d love this and was looking forward to a lengthy discussion! On the plus side I recommended Boy too and she thought it was wonderful. But it’s made me hesitant about recommending it to anyone else – I quoted the ‘I call these things love’ with a friend yesterday without saying where it came from as I can’t face someone else hating it!

It feels like giving over a piece of your soul, doesn’t it? I feel like there’s so much of OFMD that reflects my own hinterland, things I’m still discovering about myself, that if someone says they don’t like it, they’re rejecting who I am. Ridiculous? I don’t know. What I was saying above about seeing and processing life through metaphor… That’s me. If you don’t like how they behave and think, you don’t like me or know me. I love that Ed processes the two most important things that ever happened to him as cryptid marine animals, for instance. I have a whole lot to say about that, but no time now unfortunately.

My sister will be over the show in about a fortnight. No worries there. She will ‘move on’ very quickly. I have a small window in which to indulge it in real life.

This is exactly why I can't bear the idea of recommending it to somebody I care about only to risk them saying that they don't care for it and then breaking my heart by telling me why.

On the other hand I did tell my husband yesterday that I would love him to watch again with me in the autumn and he said he would. Mind you when I said I have lots of things to point out to him now I have rewatched so often he replied "so we are going to be be pressing the pause button a lot then are we?" I may have to be pretty selective.

A second thread.. how amazing … I remember when it was two of us chatting to each other 😂

I’ve been a bit quiet, been catching up with some of Rhys’s other stuff .. he’s so fabulous. He’s doing a voice in the new Monsters Inc series on Disney+

See Basingstoke got a hammering in the paper, but the Crew that went seemed to enjoy themselves (thought thier red faces were excitement, but may have been heat)

I’m going to treat myself next werk, and start all over again. Thinking of doing a Sporcle quiz per episode

S1 … how far Ed will go for Stede
S2 …how for Stede will go for Ed

…she saw the clever genre-swapping that we love on this thread as clunky and meaning it falls short of being fully satisfying in any genre.

This physically hurts…

This is exactly why I can't bear the idea of recommending it to somebody I care about only to risk them saying that they don't care for it and then breaking my heart by telling me why.

I've only seriously recommended it to 2 people (not counting brief comments). One I think will like it. The other was the couple DH mentioned it to on Friday. I think she may like it, but not her DH - and he will probably tell me how ridiculous the whole thing is! DH also said how much I watch it so I then had to big it up a bit 😁

My DH just thinks it's funny, how much I'm into it. I showed him the Rhys t-shirt that @lizziesaurusx found for me, and he tried to persuade me to buy one. To actually wear. In public! I'm really not sure what I think about that... He did say no to the life size cardboard cutout though 😆

But on the other subject, I feel the same about people not liking or understanding it. This show has really affected me and I can't admit that in RL in case they just don't get it. It's fine to say "this is brilliant I love it so much I've watched it 20 times". But not to say that I now live and breathe it, and it's making me question all sorts of stuff about life. So I do understand @MrsJellybee .

And @ExtraOnions you're back!! Lovely to see you - I've been wondering how you are getting on :) I am only slowly watching through other Rhys stuff at the moment, but I'm still listening to the Cryptid podcast regularly. There's just so much to look forward to.

I have to say, I love the GO and OFMD fanfic. There are a lot of seriously talented writers out there knocking themselves out for zero dollarbucks just to share what they love with other people who love it too.

I was just thinking that with Archer they've taken one set of characters and played with them in various different times, places and genres - imagine if someone funded them to do that with the Revenge crew (am on chapter 3 of "In Favour with their Stars" which is a great concept!)

Agree totally. I read (actually watched) the sequel to "In Favour with their Stars" today (link by @Phineyj up there somewhere). At one point I was in tears and then I needed about an hour afterwards to just sit and process it! You need to have read the first one, but these 2 stories are some of the most powerful writing I have ever read. As you say - serious talent!