Our Flag Means Death: Thread 2. Still utterly brilliant and we are still obsessed!

[TriceratopsRocks]

Ahoy there mateys! Hop aboard our ‘safe space ship’ thread 2, where we can continue to wax lyrical about our favourite show.

If you haven’t yet seen Our Flag Means Death, what are you waiting for? Do go watch it (on BBC iPlayer) and then come back here and join us.

You may have heard that this is a comedy about pirates and think that's not for you. But it’s actually about self-discovery, healing and found-family with a love story at its heart. It does begin as a sort of pirate workplace comedy, but in episode 4 the tone changes and that’s where the main story really starts. The joint leads are both damaged by abusive backgrounds and think they want what the other has. The show is about their healing and their respective journeys. It’s tender, romantic, funny, emotionally intelligent and utterly refreshing. It subverts genre expectations. There is comedy, absurdity and a good amount of heartbreak and despair - sometimes in the same scene! The acting is outstanding (Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby especially). But the writing, music, costumes, sets, the sheer attention to detail – for a show with only 18 half-hour episodes it is still keeping us talking, a full thread and many re-watches later. Can you tell how much I love it?

If you think this might appeal, do watch it, then come back and talk to us. It would be lovely if more were to join our crew. But be aware it's a show that needs time. The 2nd lead doesn’t arrive until the end of episode 3 and that’s when the main story starts. You need to give it at least 4 episodes. It then took me several more to fully appreciate what I was watching but then I was hooked - and had to immediately watch it all over again. If you like Good Omens, What We Do in the Shadows, Ghosts or even Bridgerton, this might be the show for you.

(I’ve kept this spoiler free, but if you scroll down you will no doubt find many, so beware!)

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5008593-our-flag-means-death-its-utterly-brilliant-and-i-am-obsessed?reply=135294204

As for when Ed realised his feelings, I'm in the 'quite early' camp. Although he's fascinated by Stede from the off, I think he's a goner in 1.5. I'd say the morning marmalade scene is when he realises this is something else, but it's the party and it's after effects that seals the deal for him. The way Ed looks at Stede when he is being told to "Stand down", again when they are watching the aristos burn the boat down, again when they are in the rowing boat on the way back, and finally in YWFTW. I just took a few screenshots, because any excuse to gaze on them, right?

@BillStickersIsInnocent That’s really interesting – so basically like the Christian ideal of each person having inherent worth as a human. I think we get taught that template as young children, but we live in a culture which, even though it's nominally culturally 'Christian', operates in practice on the basis of masculinity/power etc being prized. In real Stede’s context I imagine that was even more strongly the case, what with the slavery, status of women, wealth imbalances etc. With the show Stede, it feels quite an unconscious decision to break the mould - as @TriceratopsRocks said above, he's naive and open, which is all the more remarkable given the templates he's grown up with.

@TriceratopsRocks He reacts strongly when people put others down

Never more so than with Ned Low - both in terms of recognising Ned's treatment of his own crew as a weak spot, and in defending his own crew and his 'friend' (I wish he'd said boyfriend then, though I know it was too soon). It makes him take a step that is fundamentally against who he really is. His seemingly innate kindness and defence of others make his lack of empathy for Lucius more obvious though. I'd forgotten the bit with Pete/Olu - so we're seeing that respect for others right from the start.

I think generally Stede does see the best in people and glosses over the bad stuff. Quite a lot of glossing at times to be fair.
@lizziesaurusx This is something I think I am also guilty of with regard to Ed. I mean, we know some of the things he has done, or has ordered others to do. Not his actions towards the crew but more in general, when he's being a 'bloodthirsty pirate'. There's the list of crimes on his wanted poster and the stories told by CJ, for instance. But we don't see him as a bad person because we see his trauma and his pain, and we see him through Stede's eyes. We understand that there are reasons why he became what he did and know that what he needs is love, support and therapy! I need to remind myself sometimes that the people of the Caribbean will see Blackbeard rather differently than I do.

Edited because I'm forgetting to tag people today :)

I can't wait to have a look at this when I get back home. I don't remember it but it's always good to have an excuse to watch any episode.

Gaveston is all pride and greed, as far as I remember, and I bet he loved fine things. Though I saw it in the early 90s, in the world of Section 28 - I wonder how much that seeped in, and whether his character has a different spin on it now there would be less of an underlying assumed homophobia in his presentation?

As for Captain Wentworth, Persuasion is my favourite Austen and that's my favourite version. But I'm afraid Ed has forever ruined captains and naval heroes for me, and all Austen heroes in fact - I mean who can look at Wentworth with his buttoned up sincerity in the same light after seeing Ed running across the beach in his leathers calling for Stede, and then kissing him in public?

Just joined the thread to say I'm late in appreciating this series. I'm not quite done with S1 yet, but trying to make it all last as long as possible.

Gaveston is all pride and greed, as far as I remember… He’s also a complete bitch (it’s getting on for 30 years since A level so I’m scrambling a bit here). Stede’s also a bitch. He really is. That line in 2.7 to Izzy: ‘Is this a victory lap? It’s gonna take you a while with your horsey leg.’ I mean, ffs! Only Rhys as Stede can get away with that and come out on top. (I laugh out loud every time he says that line because I’m incredulous).

But I'm afraid Ed Stede has forever ruined captains and naval heroes for me, and all Austen heroes in fact There. Fixed it for you 😉

Welcome to the crew, @TeabySea ! It's lovely to hear from someone enjoying this for the first time :) If you don't want any spoilers you may be better to avoid the thread for now, but do come back and chat to us once you've watched it through :)

I didn't do it for A level, just very skimpily at uni for a 'Marlowe in a week' type essay, hence only very vague memories. I'd completely forgotten the horsey leg comment - that's one of my least favourite episodes so I haven't watched it as often. As you said before, and I think David Jenkins said about casting Rhys, his charm makes us forgive a lot of Stede's potential self-centredness and privileged obliviousness and focus on his sincerity.

No, sorry, definitely Ed. I mean this is fantasy, right? So while Stede is clearly the one to settle down with for a life filled with kindness, enthusiasm, and unexpected adventures, given that they're both gay, dead and fictional, I can safely choose Ed for all the wrong reasons despite the fact that he'd be a nightmare. Stede's energy and zest for life would be a breath of fresh air compared to the heroes in Austen though.

Oh, I think we’re on the same page after all. Ed makes me want to cry sometimes he’s so gorgeous to look at. Hey, what do you think of this for a potential younger Ed Teach?

💯. It's a very easy game of 'snog, marry, avoid' isn't it 🤣

Oh my. He is stunning, isn't he.

OMG, this! 🤣🤣🤣🤣

So I'm reading Contellationism... Is it normal to find that you're completely unable to work anymore because you're daydreaming about Ed and Stede kissing on the roof?

Yes @AhBiscuits yes! I have a viva tomorrow and struggling to focus. If it was on OFMD I’d be totally on it.

Yes, I can definitely confirm that it's totally 100% normal. You'll also find that it doesn't wear off, and that you are now destined to daydream about them forever.

‘You kissed me for well over three elephants… I counted them’ 🐘🐘🐘

🤪😍

Yeah I think that's normal 😁.

I could really do with the next chapter right now.

Absolutely, absolutely normal! 🙀

I can’t wait to see how Shearwater handles ‘the stuff’. Be it the next chapter or later. I think I’ll need to book a day off work.

@MrsJellybee yes I’ve wondered the same. Quite a lot 😂

That photo of Taika is glorious. It helps to have something like that to look at while I count down the days until I can get back to rewatching.