Our Flag Means Death: Thread 2. Still utterly brilliant and we are still obsessed!

[TriceratopsRocks]

Ahoy there mateys! Hop aboard our ‘safe space ship’ thread 2, where we can continue to wax lyrical about our favourite show.

If you haven’t yet seen Our Flag Means Death, what are you waiting for? Do go watch it (on BBC iPlayer) and then come back here and join us.

You may have heard that this is a comedy about pirates and think that's not for you. But it’s actually about self-discovery, healing and found-family with a love story at its heart. It does begin as a sort of pirate workplace comedy, but in episode 4 the tone changes and that’s where the main story really starts. The joint leads are both damaged by abusive backgrounds and think they want what the other has. The show is about their healing and their respective journeys. It’s tender, romantic, funny, emotionally intelligent and utterly refreshing. It subverts genre expectations. There is comedy, absurdity and a good amount of heartbreak and despair - sometimes in the same scene! The acting is outstanding (Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby especially). But the writing, music, costumes, sets, the sheer attention to detail – for a show with only 18 half-hour episodes it is still keeping us talking, a full thread and many re-watches later. Can you tell how much I love it?

If you think this might appeal, do watch it, then come back and talk to us. It would be lovely if more were to join our crew. But be aware it's a show that needs time. The 2nd lead doesn’t arrive until the end of episode 3 and that’s when the main story starts. You need to give it at least 4 episodes. It then took me several more to fully appreciate what I was watching but then I was hooked - and had to immediately watch it all over again. If you like Good Omens, What We Do in the Shadows, Ghosts or even Bridgerton, this might be the show for you.

(I’ve kept this spoiler free, but if you scroll down you will no doubt find many, so beware!)

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5008593-our-flag-means-death-its-utterly-brilliant-and-i-am-obsessed?reply=135294204

I've just watched episode 4 again (as part of my rewatch, but it's one of my favourite episodes), and can I just say how much I love Mary? She's married off, in possibly the most depressing wedding ever to appear on TV, to a man who is self absorbed, detached and after about 10 years still clearly knows nothing about her likes/dislikes and interests. She must feel incredibly lonely but she tries - possibly aided by copious amounts of wine. She's one of the reasons ep10 is another big favourite of mine. I would have loved her to meet Ed. I bet they'd get on brilliantly. I also love the colours they are both wearing in this scene - it's one of my favourite S1 Stede looks.

Anyway. I just wanted to say three cheers for Mary :)

It would be very interesting to hear it all from Mary's POV...

Wonderful character as he is, Stede would be super annoying to cohabit with.

I read a version of Pride & Prejudice once from the maid's POV and it really made me think (actual published book, not fanfic, but may as well have been!)

P.S. forgot to say (and it was pages back) that I really enjoyed the symbolism-of-oranges facts. Top quality commentary.

Also reminded me of this strangely compelling so-bad-it's good film (featuring worst Italian accent ever from Gerard Depardieu):

Is he supposed to be Christopher Columbus, or is that the boy? It's not a film I've seen. Good orange though!

I think it's testament to what a brilliant character Mary is that she's doesn't have lots of screentime but makes a big impression and is a definite fan favourite. Maybe it helps that she's the only non-pirate woman we really get to know? If only they'd connected during that ten years in the way that they do as soon as they acknowledge that they'd both be much happier if it was over - maybe they could've understood each others' needs and lived separate lives that enriched them emotionally. Although we don't know whether the attitudes of the non-pirate world in the show towards two men being in a relationship would've been the same as in the pirate world. And also it wouldn't have been true to the history, and there would have been no story.

I wish we'd seen Mary and Ed meet in the show. There's a lovely ff in a canon world where Stede takes Ed and Lucius to his house to meet Mary. I can't remember who recommended it so if it was you, @TriceratopsRocks, apologies for recommending it back, but also thank you. I love Mary in Ink and Ichor too.

https://archiveofourown.org/works/41658585/chapters/104496756

P&P - was the book Longbourn - Jo Baker, @Phineyj ? I loved it but haven't read P&P since and feel I would be eye rolling at some of the Bennett girls' demands.

Mary would definitely be the heroine of a more traditional romance. After the rubbish arranged marriage, husband abandons her, she 'finds herself' and goes on to live her best life (with or without new fella - Doug is pretty much just a cherry on top TBF). I love that the show is sympathetic to her, and makes it obvious that she's in as bad a state over their marriage as Stede is.

I think it's testament to what a brilliant character Mary is that she's doesn't have lots of screentime but makes a big impression and is a definite fan favourite.

I think on Mumsnet we see a lot of posts that could well have been written by Mary! I suspect there are quite a few women who can identify with her marriage situation and would be downing the red wine alongside her.

I haven't read that fic yet @lizziesaurusx , I'll put it on my list. I have read a few with Mary though, and I do like the ones where she's supportive of Stede after they've split. I have to say, there are several where I just read Mumsnet red flags all over, e.g. introducing Ed to the kids after a week or two, or Stede being Disney Dad, and I have to keep reminding myself it's not the same as real life :)

I'm much more into Ed than Stede, but it does grate on me very slightly that some of the ff presents Stede as a kind of man-child who can't function on any normal level without massive caretaking from his friends and Ed. In the series he's socially capable, emotionally intelligent, has great taste in Fine Things 😍and is well-read and intelligent. He's sweet rather than charismatic and poorly suited to buckling the swash (mostly) but that doesn't make him totally inept in all spheres.

Sorry @TriceratopsRocks , I'm not sure why I wrote that as an answer to your post about how excellent Mary is

@TriceratopsRocks bizarrely, Depardieu is supposed to be Columbus, although it's awful casting. I think they must have needed a "name" to get it funded. It does have some compelling scenes when the mariners make contact with the first peoples. Really shows how strange it was for both parties. I got a whole unit of year 7 History work out of it once...

@lizziesaurus that was 'Love Led Us Here', I think? I did like the Ed/Mary scenes. I liked all of it in fact except the overly realistic infectious diseases.

Also, yes Longbourn, that's right. The 'very shoe roses were got by proxy' was an amazing bit of filling in between the lines.

We should probably not go there with the Bonnet plantation inevitably being worked by slaves, eh?

@CarterBeatsTheDevil I like that quote where Izzy says "I've met many better men than you, Bonnet...all of them are dead," with a kind of despairing disbelief. He's jolly lucky. Useful!

The thing is, Stede isn’t useless. He’s a bit useless in a world where toxic masculinity rules. But that isn’t Stede’s MO. It’s emotional intelligence. That’s how he wins over Ned Low’s crew. That’s why when he kills Low and then it all goes to his head, and he is no longer true to himself, he comes unstuck within 24 hrs. He is also a quick learner - how quickly does he learn the art of being ‘run through’ - ‘Did I do it right?’. Yes, Stede, you did. And when he thinks Ed is dead, what is the first thing he does? Not lose his mind like Ed likely would, but rescues the crew. Rescues the very people who ‘killed’ Ed. With camomile tea, a zip wire and tea towels (two for Fang). He isn’t useless, he’s different. Creatively so. Wonderfully so.

Mary - what a character. I wish we’d seen more of her in season 2. I guess her function in the story is over though. They could so have gone with the bitter ex trope. But to see Mary flourish, celebrate her artistic skills, her sexuality, her womanhood, is wonderful. She’s also funny as hell, and has great executive function.. ‘I really wanted to get it done tonight’. Absolutely. Strike ‘murder husband’ off your to-do list. You’re a single mum with a budding career. List as long as your arm. Get it done, love.

If you’re so inclined, please vote for Rhys below (Rubio too). Not sure of the calibre or prestige of the awarding body, but these minor awards are often noted by the bigger ones as indicators of future nominations, so doesn’t hurt. Rhys’ category is about four down - Best performer in cable of streaming comedy show, round 1. He’s winning by a country mile at present.
https://telltaletv.com/2024/05/vote-for-your-favorite-tv-shows-and-performers-the-2024-tell-tale-tv-awards-round-1/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR0d-5T91iwGeM91uxof2R9-ypNKfUHIRErLIxGII7R5VQ1M2i2-lMr8jEc_aem_AafiXpPAcfesydqDnT8lVqrnBKDOltNxEmZKstaAJVaQ18cgqmtSKIiE110Cuej5CuAe4cG_1UIsyf611tPX2dfJ#google_vignette

Oh yes, Stede in the show has skills! As a Stede fan I know exactly what you mean. He demonstrates so many excellent qualities and really succeeds in achieving everything he's dreamed of. He's unconventional in the way he does it, but that's his whole MO. So when he's a bit useless in fics it doesn't really ring true. He's allowed to be a bit clumsy and a bit bumbling in the romance department though :) Well, the recognising and understanding the romance anyway, because well, that's canon.

@TriceratopsRocks awww.. I don’t like Stede in those colours. Sorry. I think of them as his ‘land colours’. They’re not him. I noticed in the painting his family are all in yellows and he is set apart from them in blue: land and sea. After, when he leaves, he is nearly always in his turquoises or whites or greens. Objectively, Rhys looks great in the suit (😍), but symbolically, it makes me sad.

Hehe that's ok @MrsJellybee. I just like how they suit him so well. They aren't my favourite colours (that would be the teal), but I think that earthy teracotta looks so good on him. I'm choosing to ignore what it represents 😁

@TriceratopsRocks I mean it is kind of orangey… 🍊🧡

😂😂😂

That's why I liked the quote.

Izzy can't understand what Stede is 'doing' because he can't comprehend emotional intelligence. Although I think he shows a little himself by the end.

And I can never understand why Taika isn't getting on these awards list. His performance is phenomenal. He should be there alongside Rhys.

Absolutely. Izzy knows Ed for twenty years and doesn’t understand him at all. Stede understands the shape and contours of Ed’s soul within 20 minutes.

Did it take him that long? I've not long ago watched 1.4. Looked quicker than that to me😁. It's one of the things I love so much about that episode - that instant connection

I remember a list I came across a while ago of things Stede did. I enjoyed reading it - let's see if I can find it...

Here we go:

https://www.tumblr.com/celluloidbroomcloset/743321837046513664/stuff-stede-bonnet-has-done?source=share

And @MrsJellybee , I have to say that is such a wonderfully poetic way of putting it.

Did it take him that long? I was giving Stede chance to come round a little after being gut-stabbed. 🤣 A taut twenty. But you’re absolutely right. Stede’s understanding of Ed is immediate and instinctive, and is reciprocated.