Shardlake - Disney+

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Is it worth having somewhere to discuss this? It is live for viewing from today. Are we doing spoilers or not?

(I will try not to do absolute spoilers but this is based on having watched all.)

Having seen bad reviews I started watching thinking this cant be as bad as that, but nearly turned off.

The whole way it was filmed was like some bad Hammer movie. And of course the setting was so obviously not England.

For me (and I have only heard the radio versions) it is all about Shardlake negotiating the ever shifting politics of the period. So the scence with Cromwell when it seemed that there might be changed narrative on Anne Boleyn was an example of the real drama of the books.

Felt they had turned it into a male adolescent escapades.

Forget about hats, what was that on the top of Cromwell's head? At first I thought he must be wearing a close fitting fur cap, but think it was meant to be his hair. I got really distracted by this!

I have some questions about the plot which seems to have changed "facts" that I thought were important for future books if they make more tv series. But will wait to ask these until most have watched all.

But agree with comment up thread about misrepresenting Shardlake's status in society and suspect that clothing also too rich, and Jack would never have set off for the countryside in basically court / high society dress.

What a shame. Not saying I wanted to sit through the dreary candle lit scences of Wolf Hall, but I suppose they thought the audience wouldn't relate to someone living in plain clothe and just getting by financially - and of course the whole social strata obstructions.

I think Peter Firth was having a good time with his short scenes!

I'm on the third episode - are we doing spoilers. I'm struggling a lot with Jack's plot and just general appearance and character. I don't mind Matthew so much. It's a long time since I read the books - is what's happening with Jack a direct transfer of Mark or have they made it up?

Also agree with the colorblind casting - I have no issue with this where it doesn't alter the plot or meaning but it renders Guy's entire character arch implausible.

Love the books, this series is very disappointing. Generally really poor casting. I agree with others about Jack being too 'posh' and I don't get the sense of Shardlake being so arrogant and unkind in the books. Sean Bean always seems to play the same character in everything (like Martin Freeman) and I kept expecting him to ask for a cup of Yorkshire tea!A wasted opportunity in my opinion.

average life expectancy in Tudor England was mid 30s.

But that's because of the very high levels of infant mortality. It doesn't mean that adults didn't expect to live beyond the age of 35. If ten babies died in their first year of life, and ten people died aged seventy, the average age at death would be 35.

If you survived your first year, then your first five years, your life expectancy would be more than 35 years.

Yes if you survived until your 5th birthday you were more than likely to make it to 50. And 50 was the next age where a lot of people dropped off the perch.

I watched a couple of episodes - agree Shardlake too young, too agressive and not thoughtful enough. The dialogue was rather 'modern' 😂

I signed up to Disney+ again just to watch this, after leaving last year. I really enjoyed the first two Shardlake books but it sounds like this series is a disappointment. I was hoping it would be something both me and DH could enjoy (he hasn't read any of the books )but I think I'll have to give it a trial run of first episode before subjecting him to it!

He might enjoy it more than you by virtue of having not read the books

I've not read the books, and I quite liked the first episode, except for the Lack of Hats and (an even more niche gripe) the full-circle ringing in the "outdoor London" scene.

And it was obvious that the monk's ethnicity was going to be an issue so agree that was a bit undermined...

I only learned about the history of bell ringing in the last year and now I know it’s going to ruin a lot of things for me, isn’t it?

Wolf Hall has spoiled shows of this era, it set the bar really high in many ways.

I haven't read the books and quite enjoyed the show. The lack of hair and costume accuracy is a bit annoying, but no where as bad as the sets. First look at the monastery it was obviously not filmed anywhere in the UK or Ireland. That really takes me out of the immersion more than lack of hats.

I hope the next series is filmed somewhere that looks more accurate. This looked like Hungary or somewhere like that.

Good point. I may put it on tonight. Will report back if we watch it.

I really enjoyed it, but I have only listened to the audio books. Think the actor playing Matthew was very good.

Love the books and amazed it’s taken so long to do the adaptation, as always thought they’d make perfect BBC Bank Holiday fare.

Really disappointed with the casting. Shardlake looks like a well-fed rugby player and is butcher than Jack Barak! He should be gentle and thoughtful and shouldn’t he be wearing black lawyers robes instead of cobalt doublets? The whole thing just looked too opulent and clean.

I really like Anthony Boyle as an actor (he’s great as Kevin Maxwell in Tetris and as John Wilkes Booth in Manhunt) but is completely wrong for the part. Needs someone taller and a bit sexy. How hard can it be? As others have said, there needs to be a more obvious age gap between them and they need to be an odd couple. The actor playing Guy appears to be a total charisma vacuum. Sean Bean miscast as he can’t do not-Yorkshire.

It’s 20 years since I read Dissolution and I can’t remember many details, other than it’s Mark rather than Jack, who is not introduced till the second book. It’s always going to suffer by comparison to The Name of the Rose.

LunaNorth · 01/05/2024 21:06
I’ve just listened to the audiobook, and I had Matthew down as a bit older. He was a fatherly figure to Mark, who has been replaced by Jack!
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Sean Bean’s Cromwell seems to be from Putney, just south of Sheffield. And why is he dressed all in red? I thought he always wore black. And nobody has a hat on!
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I think I’ll go back to the books. It’s way better in my head.”

Maybe try the radio version, with Jason Watkins. Very good. Probably on BBC Sounds.

I agree with whoever upthread said feels like it’s been adapted by someone without any love for the source material.

I’ve only seen the first two episodes. Once I got over my disappointment and went with it as it’s own thing, I enjoyed it more.

To be fair a Tudor Putney accent was probably as close to a modern Sheffield accent as it was to a modern Cockney accent.

But yes, cast Sean Bean and you will get Sean Bean!

I got the impression from the radio adaptations that he wasn't at all showy and was extremely careful in what he did as he was only too aware of the shakely political arena he was working in.

I cant remember, but it is because he provided Cromwell with a "legal" solution to a political problem (Anne Boleyn?) that he was continued to be used to do this sort of sleight of hand. But he was very much not of that class.

Do the books give any of his back story? ie family, how he came to be in the law?

And I know they allowed him a few thoughts spoken out loud, but from listening to the radio versions, there is a lot of inner dialogue which explains why he acts like he does etc..

Currently none of the radio series are available via the BBC https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p09kw69t/episodes/guide

Have just that Shardlake series read by Anton Lesser is available on youtube. (I have heard him read other books and he is always good.) (6 hours!)

Searching Matthew Shardlake audiobooks seems to list them all.

Talking on Anton Lesser I wonder if they will ever make a tv series of Falco?!

Dissolution explains that he grew up on a farm, but because of his scoliosis, he wasn’t able to take it over.
His other choice was the church, but he was told by a priest that his disability meant “he wasn’t made in God’s image.”
So he went to London to learn the law.

I read all the books and loved them. Thinking I’ll give the series a go despite mixed reviews. Can I just ask opinions on letting 12 yr old DD watch? Too gruesome?

Dissolution explains that he grew up on a farm, but because of his scoliosis, he wasn’t able to take it over.
His other choice was the church, but he was told by a priest that his disability meant “he wasn’t made in God’s image.”
So he went to London to learn the law.

Thanks for this which prompted me to start listening to the book as read by Anton Lesser. (He is really good)

1 hour in and they've only just reached the monastry.

But yes it does explain how he couldn't take over his father's farm, and the bit they did show in the tv series about him not being in "God's image" started his questioning of the established church.

But also from the radio plays I had thought he was just skirting round politics and trying to get work by not being overtly anything. Far from that, in the book it explains he became an active Reformer which is where he became friends with Cromwell and so in one sense at that time they were equal. So it wasn't (as I thought) that Shardlake was just clever legally but trusted by Cromwell for his politics.

Also, 2 of us up thread had said his house was much too grand, but in the book he is not only travelling home from a long weekend with posh country folk, but thinking of his "very fine house" that he had been able to buy (at 35).

So it seems him being an outsider or more distant with others is just because of how he is seen and judged for his visible disability.

He was delighted with <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/CuiOO/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sean-bean-everyone-on-tv-was-upper-middle-class-there-is-more-talent-out-there-lxhh33drr" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the casting of Sean Bean as Cromwell. At the earliest stages the producer had asked him what his attitude to blind casting was. Did the colour of an actor matter to him? His answer was typical Chris. In theory, yes, but with Shardlake, no. The thing that mattered was accuracy. A black actor could only be cast in a role which it was possible for him to inhabit in 1537.

When they offered Chris a chance to watch a rough cut, he said he didn’t have the strength. It’s a shame. But he knew it was coming. Antony Topping, his agent and friend, told me that he joked he wouldn’t believe it was happening until he saw it in the Radio Times. He lived long enough to see that, at least.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-cj-sansom-i-knew-even-shardlakes-sheep-are-true-to-history-m6zzj2r3t

Can be read at https://archive.ph/CuiOO

Have watched first 2 episodes. Actors are not like how I imagined characters at all. Did shardlake have a deformed hand as well as back? Anyone remember? Also properties all look too clean and bright imo. I’m getting shades of Iago with Shardlake as well!

edit: Bob Hoskins Iago I mean!