Shardlake - Disney+

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Is it worth having somewhere to discuss this? It is live for viewing from today. Are we doing spoilers or not?

Really looking forward to this although having seen the trailer I'm a bit hmmm about the casting. The actor they have playing Matthew is not how I pictured him in my head at all. Both he and Barak look soooo boyish. I picture older, more careworn, more beardy etc. Plus having Sean Bean as Thomas Cromwell seems like casting by numbers for this kind of TV show.

Grumbles aside I'm still eager to get stuck into it.

So sad though that CJ Sansom died the week his amazing characters are being brought to the screen

Really looking forward to watching it. I went through a major Shardlake binge listen of all the books over the last year or so, so they’re all quite fresh in my mind. I had always found it quite hard to picture Matthew, though I think we get used to him describing himself as older as the books go on. I suspect I may have pictured him as a youthful Mark Rylance. In Dissolution I think he’s about 35 (I found something online saying he was 43 in the 5th book, set summer 1545, and Dissolution is summer 1537 so he’d be around 35).

The actor is about 32 according to Wikipedia so it’s not far off. Though I’m going to have to expunge from my head that he was Ruairi in the archers, as I stopped listening years ago and I think Ruairi is about 4.

The Jack actor also looks a bit young but I guess they need to make him younger than Matthew by a bit. I pictured more an Eastenders hard man; this guy looks more like Nicholas Overton. But I agree - let’s see how it goes, reviews seem positive. Looking forward to watching with the teens.

eta - yes, and RIP C J Sansom. Very sad.

I didn't know about CJ Sansom that is sad. Matthew I think is passable it's Jack I'm struggling with, I had him as a rough and ready type (probably a going Sean Bean!) I agree everyone except Sean Bean is a bit boyish and casting him is a bit expected too.

Got to say I’d have loved it if Mark Rylance turned up as tv crossover Thomas Cromwell. But it’s always good fun to have Sean Bean in things. Looking forward to meeting Guy as well.

I love the books but sadly this looks like it will disappoint, from the brief trailer. Shardlake is surely older, hunchbacked, soberly dressed and ALWAYS WEARING A FECKING HAT, as did everyone in those days (and every other historical drama - WTF is the problem with giving all the characters accurate outfits INCLUDING HEADGEAR of the period?) As with many dramas like this they seem to make all the characters too young, mistakenly trying to appeal to the younger market I guess? I'll be happy to have my mind changed though ....

I was looking forward to this, but has had terrible reviews.

Quite often I find radio series that i have really enjoyed are a disappointment on tv.

Which I suppose shows we still use our own imagination which isn't limited to the directors presentation.

(Have often wondered why nobody has made a tv series of McLevy for those who miss rude arrogant detectives eg Morse. Though probably wouldn't pass US appropriate language standards!)

Really? I can only find 4 and 5 star ratings on Google. I hope it's not a wasted opportunity.

I hope it's not a wasted opportunity.

So do I and I will certainly give it a go.

The review was in a newspaper but cant remember which one.

I think they just felt it was a bit light weight (a bit Disney?!) and didn't convey the period well.

But it maybe that for anyone who hasn't read or heard the books it seems good.

Have just googled and the first review that came up used the word Disneyfication, but yes others are more positive.

I’ve just listened to the audiobook, and I had Matthew down as a bit older. He was a fatherly figure to Mark, who has been replaced by Jack!

Sean Bean’s Cromwell seems to be from Putney, just south of Sheffield. And why is he dressed all in red? I thought he always wore black. And nobody has a hat on!

I think I’ll go back to the books. It’s way better in my head.

Plus the line, “I’m here for you if you need me” made me wince a bit.

The Shardlake actor looks like he should be Jack Barak and the Barak actor looks more like book Shardlake. I always pictured a younger Mark Rylance physical type as Shardlake. I think Mark Rylance is a great actor but I thought (tin hat on) he was miscast as Thomas Cromwell in Wolf Hall as Cromwell was a great big, hulking, thug of man.

I'll give the series a go. I hope they have done the books justice.

Very sad news about CJ Sansom - great writer

I've binged it and it's really quite good. They've picked the right man for Shardlake.

No spoilers please, if possible! I've only watched episode 1.

I imagined Shardlake as looking much older and Barak as much younger (say 45 and 19) but I haven't read the books in 20 years so no idea how old they were supposed to be

There's a bit too much AI in the scenery for me but otherwise enjoyable.

Watched the first episode with DH who was looking forward to it, but won't be bothering with the rest.

Are you me? Lack of hats in period dramas is my pet hate.
I used to joke that I was going to make my fortune by travelling to Westeros and introducing my amazing invention the hat! (I know it wasn't period, but it was sudo medieval and the bare heads drove me to distraction).
I understand that floppy hats /wide brims etc are tricky to film because they obscure faces if you aren't very careful with angles but there are lots of options that don't have brims at all.

Agree with all of this. Jack is supposed to be a swaggering rough diamond (and I’m sure I remember him having curly hair and maybe darker skin?) - this one is more arrogant public schoolboy.

Shardlake I’d pictured as older, thinner faced and generally a bit less healthy looking.

Mark Rylance can act anything - even makes Bing’s saintly dad more tolerable - but agree Cromwell wasn’t a natural fit physically.

Watched all of them yesterday, rather enjoyed apart from

No Hats
Cromwell wrong casting

The colour blind casting totally changes the narrative for the monk Guy. He's viewed with suspicion and fear because he's a Moor and black (in the books) so is set apart like Matthew.
In this TV adaptation every other person is black and in positions of power!

Hmm I remain to be convinced by this.

I agree that the actors don’t look like I imagined the characters. But guess that’s always a danger in dramatising a book.

I think Shardlake in the books is rather more reticent and less Gung-ho than this. Also they’ve made him far too rich! The opulence of his house was ridiculous!

The bit that made me wince was a character quoting Tennyson!

overall yes, it’s far too Disney. And a bit schlocky. I’m always suspicious of tv drama where the character has to give is a monologue to let us know their feelings rather than letting us know through the acting / actions. It’s so laboured.

I think the problem with the age thing is our different perception of what is "older".

As pp said, Shardlake is mid thirties in the first book. Today, we think of that meaning still pretty young, just starting a family and with lots of future career opportunities. In Tudor times, I think mid-30s would be seen as much more mature and established, more like middle aged. It's the mastery of the writing that it doesn't jar more in the book imo.

Do agree about Jack though, he's supposed to be a rogue

@Uncooperativefingers average life expectancy in Tudor England was mid 30s.

The colour blind casting totally changes the narrative for the monk Guy. He's viewed with suspicion and fear because he's a Moor and black (in the books) so is set apart like Matthew.

I agree with this. Normally colour blind casting doesn't bother me but when Guys race is such a central part of his character development it jarred. But if they hadn't done colour blind casting the back lash would mean there wouldn't be any more made!

I've watched the first episode and quite liked it however I've only read book 1 so not been introduced to Jack yet. I'd say it's maybe a bit too 'colourful' if you know what I mean? I felt it could have been a bit grittier in tone, I'll keep watching though as I'm intrigued

I am quite glad I haven’t got Disney + so can’t watch this tbh. The combination of lack of hats and clumsy use of colourblind casting so that it detracts from more historically informed portrayal of race, would mean I would probably not enjoy it much.

I think it was adapted by someone who either hasn't read the books or read the books and didn't enjoy them so missed out on how well written the characters are. As a stand alone series for people who haven't read the collection it's great. For everyone else I wish the BBC had made it.