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Telly addicts

Is anyone else watching Shōgun?

99 replies

TellyUsername · 01/04/2024 16:52

I'm really enjoying this offering from Disney+!

OP posts:
herewegoroundthebastardbush · 24/04/2024 22:09

Just watched it at last - and it was actually a bit of a let down! Some amazing set pieces - Yabushige and Toranaga and Blackthorne and Toranaga, Blackthorne and Fuji on the porch 😭 - but nonetheless after the fireworks of the last two episodes I didnt get a feeling of conclusion, and the weird old Blackthorne bits just didn't do it for me - what were they even for?

I feel like if there was going to be another series if would work but as a final ending it didn't give me any sense of closure or "sense of an ending".

Would 100% watch another series mind, and will definitely watch this one again!

Yabushige actor absolutely walked away with it though. What a character and what amazing characterisation! Loved his death poem 😂

therealcookiemonster · 24/04/2024 22:49

I love how they are constantly getting stuff out of their kimonos. and the thought occurs to me that kimonos would be great for storing snacks... a snickers bar here.... a pack of walkers paprika max up this voluminous sleeve....

Theraininspainfalls · 25/04/2024 02:32

Why is it all filmed in the dark and rain? I struggle to read the subtitles and understand the plot,
let alone actually see the action.

Tigersonvaseline · 25/04/2024 17:29

I think cosmo is brilliant although it's clear he's taken Richard Burton as his inspiration.
The way he walks and speaks is at wonderful odds with the very contained Japanese characters.
He's such a fish out of water and so large and ungainly but also very tender.

It's wonderful series and I've very much enjoyed being immersed in it.

therealcookiemonster · 25/04/2024 17:32

Tigersonvaseline · 25/04/2024 17:29

I think cosmo is brilliant although it's clear he's taken Richard Burton as his inspiration.
The way he walks and speaks is at wonderful odds with the very contained Japanese characters.
He's such a fish out of water and so large and ungainly but also very tender.

It's wonderful series and I've very much enjoyed being immersed in it.

I gotta say, I don't see it. every time he appeared on screen I wished someone would chop his head off with one of those lovely katanas.
tbf he has form for 0 acting skills in the most recent rendition of "persuasion".

I really liked that in this version of shogun they completely took away the "white saviour" trope and focused on toranaga unlike in the previous version.

Tigersonvaseline · 25/04/2024 17:39

I was shocked it was the same actor as persuasion and lady macbeth.. Literally shocked as I also was unimpressed

But I think he's absolutely brilliant in this part.

Yirk · 25/04/2024 17:42

Brilliant series, would have been more enjoyable if they had filmed on some sunny days, it was very dark!

Theraininspainfalls · 25/04/2024 17:55

Tigersonvaseline · 25/04/2024 17:29

I think cosmo is brilliant although it's clear he's taken Richard Burton as his inspiration.
The way he walks and speaks is at wonderful odds with the very contained Japanese characters.
He's such a fish out of water and so large and ungainly but also very tender.

It's wonderful series and I've very much enjoyed being immersed in it.

He sounds exactly like Anthony Hopkins to me. I don’t think he’s a very good actor at all.

FeltCarrot · 25/04/2024 19:38

Lady Mariko’s kimonos could have had a show of their own. Absolutely stunning.

YenneferOfBattenberg · 26/04/2024 07:25

Gosh. I cried my way through the final episode. Agree with a PP who said it felt empty without Mariko. And the scene on the boat with the ashes... oh my.

Amazing TV. I want to watch it again.

AlpineMuesli · 26/04/2024 07:28

Yirk · 25/04/2024 17:42

Brilliant series, would have been more enjoyable if they had filmed on some sunny days, it was very dark!

Filmed in Vancouver.

TellyUsername · 26/04/2024 10:35

and the weird old Blackthorne bits just didn't do it for me

He was holding Mariko's rosary in those scenes but as we found out later he dropped that into the sea. Maybe he was dreaming of returning to England? I think Toranaga was verging on evil to deny him the chance to go home, it showed the true measure of the man.

OP posts:
LenaLamont · 26/04/2024 11:19

@herewegoroundthebastardbush and @TellyUsername , I have given this far too much thought.

I think (if I'm remembering correctly) all the Deathbed Blacktorn sequences all occur when Blackthorn was unconscious/ knocked out. They were Blackthorn's subconscious picturing a future where he's back in England surrounded by his family (hence grandchildren) and his experiences in Japan are reduced to "given to you by a savage."

Blackthorn is waivering - with the death of Mariko, his disillusionment with Toranga (and obviously Yabu being Yabu) he's picturing a future away from Japan which hadn't felt a possibility after he rejected his former shipmates and returned to Japanese court.

By the end, he fully commits to remaining in Japan. By releasing Mariko's rosary into the sea with Fuji, he makes the Deathbed Blackthorn future impossible.

What do you think?

Soowoo · 26/04/2024 12:16

LenaLamont · 26/04/2024 11:19

@herewegoroundthebastardbush and @TellyUsername , I have given this far too much thought.

I think (if I'm remembering correctly) all the Deathbed Blacktorn sequences all occur when Blackthorn was unconscious/ knocked out. They were Blackthorn's subconscious picturing a future where he's back in England surrounded by his family (hence grandchildren) and his experiences in Japan are reduced to "given to you by a savage."

Blackthorn is waivering - with the death of Mariko, his disillusionment with Toranga (and obviously Yabu being Yabu) he's picturing a future away from Japan which hadn't felt a possibility after he rejected his former shipmates and returned to Japanese court.

By the end, he fully commits to remaining in Japan. By releasing Mariko's rosary into the sea with Fuji, he makes the Deathbed Blackthorn future impossible.

What do you think?

Edited

This is the conclusion I came to as well. I’m not a big fan of the deathbed scenes but if I interpret them as dreams of Blackthorn’s unconscious (subconscious?) mind I can tolerate them!

MothralovesGojira · 26/04/2024 14:26

@LenaLamont
That is exactly as I saw the England scenes. I think it illustrated Blackthorn's subconscious decision making process and I believe that he felt that if he returned to England then he would die of old age with terrible regrets having moved away from Mariko's spirit. By choosing to stay he finds purpose but in doing so becomes Toranaga's creature which was probably Toranaga's plan all along really.

evtheria · 27/04/2024 23:27

I know DP & I were absolutely wowed by the fabrics used in the costumes... This popped up on my IG explore page (😁 well done, algorithm)

www.instagram.com/thecarlosrosario

And I'm even more gobsmacked by the details/work!

VestPantsandSocks · 10/05/2024 23:08

Omg thats brilliant news! Probably won't be released for ages though 😥

Lovewine1975 · 12/05/2024 11:16

This is the best news, hope it happens!!

IwantToRetire · 10/06/2024 18:47

I've only just watched this and found there are 3 threads about this show, but thought I'll post here as has most comments Confused

So not read the book or seen any earlier version, and quite honestly did feel it would have been better without the english man have a featuring part.

But certianly whether through acting skills or being himself (joke) conveyed that yes his culture did make him a "barbarian". And him learning to be a bit less "barbaric", think a bit more, etc., was interesting but a bit laboured.

I have no idea whether what was shown is an accurate representation of Japanese culture at the time but found it intriguing, and I was always slow to grasp the plot twists, or rather manipulations that were going on.

I wonder how it would have been just to have had it shown purely from the Japanese perspective, in which occassional Europeans intervened. Maybe if there is a second series it will.

But found the landscape (and the weather), the sets for smaller communities as much as larger cities fascinating.

Although, as with Giri/Haji, I just didn't grasp much of the sentiment and culture. So supect I am unfortunately closer to Blackthorne ie having most of what was going on passing me by.

evtheria · 10/06/2024 22:19

@IwantToRetire omg I looooved Giri/Haji, off to rewatch that one now 🤪

IwantToRetire · 11/06/2024 00:22

evtheria · 10/06/2024 22:19

@IwantToRetire omg I looooved Giri/Haji, off to rewatch that one now 🤪

So did I - but somebody had to explain the "deeper meaning" to me.

Maybe I should give it a second go, and with not having to concentrate on the plot, maybe I will get more tuned it!

Did you watch Tokyo Vice?

IwantToRetire · 11/06/2024 00:34

" ... it was actually the projection of a young man looking forward onto a version of his life that he no longer wanted. Blackthorne, in this moment of seppuku, is deciding to kill that self, that possible self. He then follows through on it when he drops his cross into the water—which makes it so that future is not possible, because he had the cross in that scene. ... "

I didn't get this at all and am grateful to whoever upthread explained it. I just go caught up on the mundane, like how come he had the cross when he had dropped it in the lake. How long did he stay in Japan. Blush

The quote is from this interview https://www.menshealth.com/entertainment/a60582279/shogun-finale-ending-explained/

The ‘Shōgun’ Creators Answer All Your Lingering Finale Questions

Justin Marks and Rachel Kondo dive deep on Mariko, Toranaga, Blackthorne, and the ending that surprised even them.

https://www.menshealth.com/entertainment/a60582279/shogun-finale-ending-explained

fretaway · 27/09/2024 10:24

Pretty late to the party and have just binged this during the week. Feel like I’ve run a marathon emotionally!

Absolutely loved it. Beautifully shot, so well written and the characters had so many layers.

Wondering how the story compares with the 80s version. Does it change much?

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