Our Flag Means Death. It's utterly brilliant and I am obsessed!

[TriceratopsRocks]

I'm sure I found a thread on this series a while ago, but now season 2 is out I've looked back and I can't find anything apart from the renewal petition.

For anyone who hasn't come across it yet, I would thoroughly recommend. It starts off as a sort of workplace comedy set on a pirate ship, sort of in the style of Ghosts, and with a similar fanbase to Good Omens. When the 2nd lead character arrives at the end of episode 3, it starts to change and it only hit me two thirds of the way through season 1 that I was actually watching a very different sort of show to the one I thought I had started watching.

From that point it's phenomenal. The attention to detail is superb. Both leads are clearly neuro diverse, from abusive backgrounds and damaged because of these. They both want what they think the other one has. It's about them discovering themselves, accepting themselves for who they really are, and healing. There is comedy, but also heartbreak and despair. The show handles these so sensitively and accurately, down to minute details, and Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby deserve every award under the sun for their work here.

I don't think I've ever obsessed about a show as much as this one. I've tried to make this not too spoilery in case some of you want to watch it, but really I just want someone to talk to about it! I've already watched it countless times and the more I rewatch the more I appreciate it. I said I was obsessed and I really am!

The show has sadly been cancelled, despite its popularity, and the producers are currently trying to see if it will be picked up by another network. I have read that they are keeping an eye on the iPlayer numbers as part of this, so I also wanted to shamelessly plug it here 😁

If any of you haven't seen it and fancy giving it a try, it grows into itself in the first season and you really need to give it at least 4 episodes (episode 4 is where the main story really starts). Its not a show I would have thought to watch myself (DD wanted me to watch it with her) but I'm so glad I have.

I don't really know what I want from this thread really. I want more people to find it, but I also want to just talk about it and obviously can't do that without more spoilers than I've already given. Help me out people!

It’s as if the creators of this show reached into my brain and made a show just for me. Even I didn’t know this was the show my brain had been searching for all of my life. It’s romantic, funny, kind, emotionally intelligent, full of meta and genre subversion which is catnip to me, a lovely supporting cast, use of music which is just… mwah! Plus the two leading men are Gen X-ers full of unresolved trauma. And they are both so utterly gorgeous in completely different ways. They both trigger my maternal instinct at different points, and boy, do they also trigger something else!
Another thing that is so refreshing about this show is as far as I can think there is not one example of the straight male gaze towards a woman. And it’s so refreshing. To the point now I am hyper aware of it in any other show. Because it is everywhere. This show is freeing on so many levels.

Great choice of music. Ed’s head is trilling at a hundred miles an hour after being bedded by Stede…

I don't think Taika is shy. Or at least, he wasn't when younger. One of his films has his bare bottom on display (I've seen gifs)!

I do wonder why we don’t get a scene with Ed with no top though.

@MrsJellybee I like the idea of Ed's clothes as his armour. I think of Blackbeard almost as a character Ed plays and therefore his leathers are his costume which helps him stay in character; they make him Blackbeard and thus give him the protection that the name Blackbeard inspires. So that's very like armour. I also really liked that he took his jacket off on the treasure hunt - he was happy to be 'Ed' and it shows how comfortable he was becoming with Stede.

I really like the idea that they both got naked together soon after meeting in 1.4 in order to swap clothes.

Yup. Considering the number of times they got changed, certainly. And when Stede first came around, I'm positive Ed helped him get out of bed and dressed, because Stede probably wasn't capable of it with his injuries. Therefore they both just got on with stripping off for their subsequent outfit changes too. I like to think this shows them being comfortable with each other from the start. Very important.

Funnily enough it only occurred to me a few days ago that we don't see Blackbeard unclothed and then I remembered there was one scene where we see his back but that is, of course, just so we can see the 'Trust No-One' tattoo.

Mind you one of the things I have liked about the series is that it is not at all gratuitous. There are kisses and passion on occasion but nothing graphic.

Now, in direct contradiction to the above, would you happen to have a link to one of those bare bottomed gifs?

I so love this description! It's amazing isn't it, just how it grabs you and then gives you everything. So much TV I just find boring. One dimensional characters (I love interesting characters that really make you think about why they act as they do. Plot points that don't make sense (too much lazy writing). Action for the sake of it. And yes - too much male gaze. I've given up on a lot of it. You so rarely get shows that really make you think like this one does. I love the cast. I love the range of actors, and how they are all just accepted. And I've always been a real sucker for a good romance with a bit of angst - as long as it all works out in the end. It's why my other favourite couples are Buffy and Spike (he is so complex and has phenomenal development over the 6 Buffy seasons) and the BBCs Elizabeth Bennet and Mr Darcy (I love the earnestness of Colin Firth in that role but they are still well in 3rd place behind my other favourites). Ed and Stede are both so complex, have so many issues (which are portrayed so well) and are just made for each other. And they are both so real in the way they are played by our two astounding leads. Rhys and Taika play them with such love and sincerity - the chemistry and believability is off the scale. We know they were supporting each other as they filmed their scenes, just like the characters are supporting each other in the show.

😂😂😂

I'm not sure if I saved one, but I'll have a look. If I could remember the film name it would be easy. I just googled and all I got were lots of Chris Hemsworth articles!

Edited to add - the film is called The Strip - he plays a stripper and it's apparently pretty poor.

There is a still image in this post:
https://www.tumblr.com/allysr00m/748221733042061312/cw-last-pic-is-nsfw-i-love-how-curvy-taika-is?source=share

@MrsJellybee Another thing that is so refreshing about this show is as far as I can think there is not one example of the straight male gaze towards a woman.

Ironically, one of the things that put me off watching this when first recommended was feeling that, living with two sons and a husband, we watch more than enough male-dominated TV and I get fed up of watching things with a couple of token women and plenty of straight male gaze. But I was so wrong – this is so far from the hyper-masculine alpha world I expected and, as you say, so refreshing to watch something that doesn’t have me constantly tutting at the way the women are seen/represented.

This is it. It is SO refreshing to see.

As well as lack of the male gaze, you have the fabulous Spanish Jackie!

I wonder what her spin off show would be like...

I hadn't consciously noticed it until @MrsJellybee pointed it out but I can't remember the last time I watched something where I wasn't at some point, at some level, analysing and inevitably being pissed off by the representation of women, either numbers or tokenism or stereotypes or ageism, and haranguing the men in my family about it. So they should in fact be encouraging me in my obsessive rewatches!

Ooo we're going to need a new thread soon...

Oh wow now there is an idea. She is fantastic and I love her - someone who certainly 'gives no fucks' (to use a mumsnet favourite phrase). Talk about strong female characters - I mean, they all are in this show, but Jackie is on another level. I really do love though, how all the characters just look like normal people. I hate watching US shows in particular where everyone could be a model.

@lizziesaurusx I've gradually indoctrinated DH about 'male gaze' type issues, including the woman whose only purpose is to die to give the male motivation - that type of stuff. He gets almost as annoyed about it as I do now! At least, he complains about it when I'm there anyway!

Edited to add - I meant to quote @Phineyj 's post about Spanish Jackie here!

Blimey! I will keep an eye on it tonight/tomorrow.

I watched a 2022 panel to promote S1 today, with Rhys, Taika, David J, the photography director and Ra the set designer. You could feel the chemistry between R and T, and how easy they are in each other’s company. The host wasn’t great and there were some odd bits but it was quite interesting and the set design stuff was fascinating. The attention to detail in the set is wonderful - the constant movement of the rigging and sails for instance. They are all
so talented.

The female and female adjacent pirates also get to wear clothes that are attractive and yet practical for beating people up in! Most refreshing!

I think I've seen that one - is it the one where they do a foot touch? They are turned towards each other and their hands are always so close to each other? Not sure if it's that interview but their body language was amazing - so trusting of each other. I remember (I think) a different interview where they talked about how they kept touching each other during filming to give each other reassurance, especially during the difficult scenes. I'm sure it's the actors' relationship that that makes the romance so especially believable.

I have four of those on heavy rotation.

I may need professional help.

All those vulnerability and clothes-as-armour related reasons make perfect sense - lovely point about the treasure hunt – and he’s in a t shirt rather than full leather in the gravy basket. Like every other detail in this show it’s carefully thought out and character driven, but I still feel cheated - justice for Ed-fanciers! Stede fans get plenty of thrills.

Both tops off in the morning after scene would’ve been too much, but surely it was Ed’s turn - although then we would have missed him in the gorgeous teal robe which is a lovely colour on him.

Ed’s stomach – not so keen on the scars but love the cropped jacket and resulting little glimpses of his stomach - see below - definitely deliberate!

https://x.com/ontheyellwbrick/status/1782787992169439242

I have four of those on heavy rotation.

Recommendations very welcome @Phineyj and from you too, @TriceratopsRocks - was it you who linked before to a very beautifully written but desperately sad ff about Ed living alone on a boat waiting for Stede? With centuries of pining?

I love the kiss scene between Archie and Jim because it’s so not for the male gaze! They both have cotton stuffed up their nose and Jim is holding a severed leg. They also don’t conform to conventional female stereotypes or identities.

Both tops off in the morning after scene would’ve been too much, but surely it was Ed’s turn. But then I wouldn’t have noticed Stede’s sweet downy chest fuzz, and missed daydreaming about Ed finding bits between his teeth all the next day… 🫣

@TriceratopsRocks my t shirt arrived! I know you mentioned sizing concerns. I got an XL. I’m a generous 14 on top and this was very roomy. I actually don’t mind as I want it loose to wear abroad, but I probably could’ve handled a Large (L). It’s good quality so I’m very pleased.

Yes that's my favourite - I said I liked a bit of angst with my romance! But it doesn't end sad - they find each other in every lifetime :) It has reduced me to tears on more than one occasion though. I think that author captures them so well. If you don't mind something quite explicit, the same guy has a modern au fic where Stede and Mary are at an art class and Ed turns up as the (nude) model. It's called Ink and Ichor and I love that one too. https://archiveofourown.org/works/45019654 I'm not kidding about the explicit bits though so only click if you are happy to read.

I'll write a new OP for thread 2 tonight. @MrsJellybee do you mind if I pinch a few of your words from your post of 6.31 this morning (how are you so coherent at that time? I do the NYT games in a morning to try and give me focus but I can't think words till later in the day!)

The Spanish Jackie / Swede dynamic is a deliberate subversion of male gaze/ patriarchy. I got it straight away and laughed. And knew series 2 would be great.

How many times in film does the local, male kingpin tell some skinny, blond, quivering ingenue to ‘Come and sit by me, sugar. Don’t be scared…’ You can tell this writing team was certainly not all (if any) straight, white male! They got it and they called it out over and over.