Our Flag Means Death. It's utterly brilliant and I am obsessed!

[TriceratopsRocks]

I'm sure I found a thread on this series a while ago, but now season 2 is out I've looked back and I can't find anything apart from the renewal petition.

For anyone who hasn't come across it yet, I would thoroughly recommend. It starts off as a sort of workplace comedy set on a pirate ship, sort of in the style of Ghosts, and with a similar fanbase to Good Omens. When the 2nd lead character arrives at the end of episode 3, it starts to change and it only hit me two thirds of the way through season 1 that I was actually watching a very different sort of show to the one I thought I had started watching.

From that point it's phenomenal. The attention to detail is superb. Both leads are clearly neuro diverse, from abusive backgrounds and damaged because of these. They both want what they think the other one has. It's about them discovering themselves, accepting themselves for who they really are, and healing. There is comedy, but also heartbreak and despair. The show handles these so sensitively and accurately, down to minute details, and Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby deserve every award under the sun for their work here.

I don't think I've ever obsessed about a show as much as this one. I've tried to make this not too spoilery in case some of you want to watch it, but really I just want someone to talk to about it! I've already watched it countless times and the more I rewatch the more I appreciate it. I said I was obsessed and I really am!

The show has sadly been cancelled, despite its popularity, and the producers are currently trying to see if it will be picked up by another network. I have read that they are keeping an eye on the iPlayer numbers as part of this, so I also wanted to shamelessly plug it here 😁

If any of you haven't seen it and fancy giving it a try, it grows into itself in the first season and you really need to give it at least 4 episodes (episode 4 is where the main story really starts). Its not a show I would have thought to watch myself (DD wanted me to watch it with her) but I'm so glad I have.

I don't really know what I want from this thread really. I want more people to find it, but I also want to just talk about it and obviously can't do that without more spoilers than I've already given. Help me out people!

When Ed kisses him, he realises two things in the space of twenty seconds. He’s attracted to men, he’s in love with Ed.
See, I don't think he does. He's this mess of big feelings, but he still doesn't understand them and he's terrified. He knows Ed makes him happy, but what does that mean? I genuinely think the Mary conversation is the first time Stede recognises exactly what he and Ed both feel. As for Ed, I don't think he appreciates what a surprise his declaration is to Stede - he's been coming to terms with his own feelings for ages, attempting to 'woo' Stede in his own way, not realising that Stede hasn't twigged what's going on (clueless loveable Muppet - perfect description!). Ed has just fundamentally changed his and Stede's relationship and asked for a life long commitment (China!), after having already given his own earlier in the episode. But Ed doesn't see that these are new thoughts for Stede and gives him no time to process them.

It's certainly true that poor Ed does rather lack self-awareness. There's something else as well. We have confirmation twice in the show that he can't tell the difference between laughter and screams. He's poor at picking up other people's signals/body language. That's another ADHD trait, just like having intense, all-consuming emotions of your own is another.

Taika’s probably a genius.
Absolutely

Anyone else got a favourite character?

Lucius! For his emotional maturity, breakup support and general relationship counselling to both Stede and Ed. For all of S1.7, especially ‘that bizarre little man likes you very much’, ‘I’m literally the only person here with a wooden finger, but yeah’, and ‘the real treasure…’. For wavering about a daring rescue at the party, which is of course the rational reaction. For making Fang feel loved. And most importantly, plotwise, for being the one, apart from Ed, who saves Stede in Act of Grace – not with his fighting skills but with his intelligence and resourcefulness. I’m so glad he got his happy ending and if we couldn’t have a Stede/Ed wedding then Lucius/Pete is the next best thing.

See, I don't think he does. He's this mess of big feelings, but he still doesn't understand them and he's terrified

Actually, I think you’re right. ‘Realise’ is probably the wrong word. I think he is in love with Ed here, but doesn’t process it as love until Mary helps him. She gives him the language tools to describe what he’s feeling. Strong agree.

@TriceratopsRocks That's beautiful - so much love in that photo. I love Merstede even more after reading this article about the complexities of the costume design/filming, and about how Rhys actually learned to swim with the tail – very impressive core strength! I love that they had to tip him into the pool in his tail because he couldn't move.

https://ew.com/tv/our-flag-means-death-rhys-darby-merman-transformation-behind-the-scenes/

My son just finds it hilarious that I’m even more obsessed than he is, especially as I was pretty unfussed about the show until S1.4, but I pointed out that he’s the one wandering around practicing random phrases in a New Zealand accent. When he laughed though I was relieved that I’d been restrained and used a cute picture of the two of them rather than one of my extensive selection of Ed’s S2 hair.

I think he is in love with Ed here, but doesn’t process it as love until Mary helps him.
Exactly. He's undoubtedly in love - the telescope scene, 'you came back'. But needed Mary's help to understand.

She gives him the language tools to describe what he’s feeling.
Tha's a perfect description.

@lizziesaurusx I've actually swapped it now for this one. I had deliberately gone for a more subdued one before, but I've decided I want the brightness :)

My son just finds it hilarious that I’m even more obsessed than he is
I think my daughter finds it bizarre. I mean, she introduced me to the show and was fangirling about Ed before I was, but she's moved on and I even have to keep it a bit quiet from her now!

He must be one of the very few people who can carry off boot polish!

I have to say I don't like Pete, I wouldn't like him if he were a person I met in real life, either. Not fussed on Zheng either. But we all can't like everyone, now can we.
Also not sure how good an actor Shakespeare was but supposed it mattered less back then when theatre was mostly delivered in a declamatory style!

I don’t like Pete either…

Actually Shakespeare was meant to be a bit of a rubbish actor.. A much better ‘poet than player’. I think I meant they both strike me as mercurial personalities who understand the human condition. Taika strikes me as ‘complicated’ and Shakespeare possibly was also.

This popped up in my YouTube today and I thought you would all enjoy it:

Oh that's wonderful! Thank you for sharing that @Chrysanthemum5

Aww that’s lovely thanks @Chrysanthemum5 !

I didn't like Pete at first, but he grew on me. He was such a different character by the end than in those early episodes."They must really be into geometry" and "Oh look, running water" are 2 of my favourite non-Stede/Ed quotes. But there were so many of those - like Wee John's "What the hell's going on in towels?" and Evelyn's "Murder's a natural cause".

I never really believed fully in Zheng and Olu. And much as I loved S1 Olu, S2 Olu didn't feel the same. He had more common sense than S2 gave him. I don't think S1 Olu would have cleared Auntie's ships off the map. And he would have asked how Zheng wanted him to do the filing.

I never really believed fully in Zheng and Olu.

I honestly would’ve sacrificed their ‘love story’ for more Blackbonnet. Or more of Ed’s redemption arc with the crew.

Apparently, as you have probably seen online, there seems to have been a desire for a polycule involving Olu, Jim, Zheng and Archie but either there was no time or the powers that be weren't keen on going there.

I certainly felt we could have done without the Zheng/Olu relationship which definitely didn't ring true - no chemistry at all. Time is so precious in season two.

I completely agree that Olu was diluted (no idea why). In season one he really was the voice of sense and reason and he certainly didn't deserve that ridiculous filing nonsense.

I can, if I am feeling charitable (or maybe 'merciful' LOL), accept that he might have been a bit bemused by ships apparently crossing land.

I have just been rewatching Ed being dragged along the beach by Hornigold in 203. The music is beautiful but I have been unsuccesful in finding out what it is. Maybe it is a piece of original music written just for the show but if anybody knows . . .?

I rather enjoyed the clip of Izzy dancing 🤭

*there seems to have been a desire for a polycule involving Olu, Jim, Zheng and Archie

Yes, I think it was supposed to be a definite thing that they either cut or didn't make explicit. But although Olu, Jim and Archie works, as you say, the chemistry between Olu and Zheng just wasn't there.

Both please 😁. But I think what was missing was more Ed redemption. He never got an affirmation from the crew that they were happy with him being back - an equivalent of Stede's "..we talk it though" "As a crew" moment with Chauncey. Maybe they weren't ready for that yet (understandable) and it would have happened in S3.

Even a caption at the beginning of episode 6 saying some time had passed night have helped. The crew were totally traumatised and it really wouldn't have been easy to forgive Ed. After all despite what Izzy said in the finale they weren't in love with him as Stede was.

Mind you they did claim to be bored so I suppose we were just supposed to have realised that it was some time later.

I'm not the best at following complex plots but I am going to admit in this safe space ship thread that I didn't actually understand what was going on with the English and the uniforms etc in the final episode until I stumbled across the Wikipedia summary yesterday...

I was probably distracted by the naked bum and men in uniform tbh.

Love that article @lizziesaurusx. Ed’s visualization of Stede as a little goldfish!!

I’m getting slightly concerned about the level of my obsession at the moment to be honest. Although on the Met Gala Rita Ora thread I read an article re TW’s relationship with his ex wife and it’s taken the shine off a little, thankfully!

Re plot lines I still don’t understand the reason why not having quite a full moon would be disastrous in the series 1 lighthouse episode? Can anyone elaborate please?

🤣🤣 It was basically another fuckery.

But yeah, when Stede puts that captain’s coat on, pulls the lapels and does that bravado neck swagger thing, I basically have no idea what the plot is any longer. Or my own name. Or anything 🤣

Totally understandable, @Phineyj And the rate at which they sped through those last episodes, they didn't exactly make the English plot easy to follow. Pesky Max/WB.

The tide is higher at full moon. Something to do with earth and the moon’s gravity. But one day out wouldn’t make that much of a difference. It would still have been a strong tide if were enough to pull them to safety. Plus 1717 wasn’t a leap year. The whole sequence is bollocks and I love it. Like boat taxis, not dying from being stabbed or having your face smashed in by a canon ball, and changing into birds. It’s a magical realist world of nonsense.

@MrsJellybee thank you! Glad I haven’t missed something with that.