Our Flag Means Death. It's utterly brilliant and I am obsessed!

[TriceratopsRocks]

I'm sure I found a thread on this series a while ago, but now season 2 is out I've looked back and I can't find anything apart from the renewal petition.

For anyone who hasn't come across it yet, I would thoroughly recommend. It starts off as a sort of workplace comedy set on a pirate ship, sort of in the style of Ghosts, and with a similar fanbase to Good Omens. When the 2nd lead character arrives at the end of episode 3, it starts to change and it only hit me two thirds of the way through season 1 that I was actually watching a very different sort of show to the one I thought I had started watching.

From that point it's phenomenal. The attention to detail is superb. Both leads are clearly neuro diverse, from abusive backgrounds and damaged because of these. They both want what they think the other one has. It's about them discovering themselves, accepting themselves for who they really are, and healing. There is comedy, but also heartbreak and despair. The show handles these so sensitively and accurately, down to minute details, and Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby deserve every award under the sun for their work here.

I don't think I've ever obsessed about a show as much as this one. I've tried to make this not too spoilery in case some of you want to watch it, but really I just want someone to talk to about it! I've already watched it countless times and the more I rewatch the more I appreciate it. I said I was obsessed and I really am!

The show has sadly been cancelled, despite its popularity, and the producers are currently trying to see if it will be picked up by another network. I have read that they are keeping an eye on the iPlayer numbers as part of this, so I also wanted to shamelessly plug it here 😁

If any of you haven't seen it and fancy giving it a try, it grows into itself in the first season and you really need to give it at least 4 episodes (episode 4 is where the main story really starts). Its not a show I would have thought to watch myself (DD wanted me to watch it with her) but I'm so glad I have.

I don't really know what I want from this thread really. I want more people to find it, but I also want to just talk about it and obviously can't do that without more spoilers than I've already given. Help me out people!

I find that the fact that Taika seems to have attended the Met Gala dressed as a leather sofa helps with resisting his sex appeal.

😂

Ha ha. He did rather look like the sort of cheap pleather sofa you get in mini cab waiting rooms.

Oh my days, did he lose a bet?!

I'm getting Sidcup World of Leather 1980s vibes from those photos.

My eyes.

Given that only a day or so ago we would have sworn he looked good in leather!

Let us just say there is leather and leather...it's a fine line 😂

It's exactly the shade and texture of my dad's old recliner chair and looks like it would be very squeaky. Creepy vibe to the gloves too. Although at least he managed to wear something that is recognisably clothes, unlike his wife. I just looked up her outfit for last year and she looks amazing - what were they both thinking this year?

Absolutely not helping me to resist the appeal of S2 Ed in leather though - it's like he's a totally different person - I think the hair makes him almost unrecognisable sometimes.

Now if you had this nice blue suit that's a much better colour on you than shiny brown, why would you save it for the after party rather than wear it where you're going to be photographed a million times?

I think he knows there's something - the way he reacts when Izzy says 'He adores you' in S1.6 - but he can't recognise/identify it at that stage - perhaps because he simply hasn't experienced being genuinely loved or in love before? Mary helps him to identify it as love and gives him the words to describe it; I think it's also crucial that she and Doug provide a model of a healthy, loving, equal relationship that's been entered into willingly - perhaps he's never seen that close up before either?

Pete didn't make much of an impression on me either way in S1, apart from being sycophantic about Blackbeard. But his speech in S2 about how much he was affected when he thought Lucius was dead, plus the fact that Lucius loves him enough to want to spend the rest of his life with him, mean that while he's not approaching being my favourite character, he makes Lucius happy so that's enough.

It's exactly the shade and texture of my dad's old recliner chair

Taika looks as if he’s wearing Joey’s Barker Lounger

That's a really smart observation and makes sense - he's out of his depth in more ways than just the pirating.

And why does Izzy say that? Is it just manipulation, Iago-style? Is he very slightly sorry for Stede, knowing his number's up one way or the other, or so Izzy thinks? Is it to add verisimilitude to the 'fuckery', to keep Blackbeard interested? I wasn't at all sure when I watched it.

Incidentally the extra layer of drama-llama director-ness of that episode really made it for me. A black polo neck, heh. It could have been a really heavy watch with the infection, trauma in the bathtub and imminent slaughter of Stede, but then to overlay that with professional actors sending up parts of the profession and the bemused Dutch visitors.

It's genius.

I think it is very much manipulation. I don't know whether it's because Izzy has already seen the writing on the wall or is just playing to Stede's ego. Because he does have one, probably a result of being born into money.

It’s a form of ‘negging’ (Hello, Mumsnet!) ‘…he adores you. Why, I’ll never know…’

Izzy is saying he sees Ed’s affection for Stede, but it doesn’t intimidate him (Yes, it does, Izzy!). He is trying to reassert agency and power by stating the thing he fears aloud. He’s trying to be a Cool Wife.

The ‘It’s my job to make sure that Edward is content’ is Izzy trying to control a narrative he can’t actually control. It’s: I’m letting this happen because ultimately it will reach the conclusion I want i.e. Stede will die and I will get Blackbeard back. I honestly think Izzy still thinks he has control of the Blackbeard show here. But he can never compete with Stede’s reckless kindness which has Ed bewitched.

Is it just manipulation, Iago-style?

Izzy is so Iago, isn’t he? So much has been written about Iago’s repressed homoerotic love for Othello. I love how much this show shamelessly borrows tropes from, well, everywhere. Then subverts them in a way that blindsides me into a blubbering wreck.

I was watching part of an interview on Youtube with Con and Nathan filmed at one of the Chicago Comic Cons last night and it was interesting to hear that Nathan wasn't a trained actor when he was cast whereas Con is a career actor. Together with Taika and Rhys especially being known for more comic roles pre OFMD, that's a fascinating dynamic.

No wonder it came out with so many interesting layers.

I heard an interview with Con where he basically said that Izzy really wants 'his' Blackbeard back. Of course it's clear that 'his' Blackbeard had really already gone before any of the business with Stede started, given the comments about having to 'manage your increasingly erratic moods'.

Joel fry (who plays Frenchie) is in Inside Number 9 tonight. Another multi layer programme like OFMD but with less leather 😂

‘He adores you’ - I hadn’t thought of Izzy as being especially manipulative (at least not successfully) so I thought it reflected his general exasperation with Stede and his frustration that, no matter how hard he tries/threatens, he can’t keep Ed on task as he’s (as someone put it beautifully upthread) bewitched by Stede. I thought his tone was quite gentle, for Izzy as he is at that stage – he softens ‘why, I’ll never know’ by reiterating that ‘he does’.

Is it just manipulation, Iago-style?

Was it you @MrsJellybee who pointed out Izzy as Iago dripping poison into his master’s ear as one of the Shakespeare allusions? So he’s doing it to both of them.

Incidentally the extra layer of drama-llama director-ness of that episode really made it for me. A black polo neck, heh

@Phineyj That has made me laugh out loud each time I've watched - so perfect!

Was it you @MrsJellybee who pointed out Izzy as Iago dripping poison into his master’s ear as one of the Shakespeare allusions? So he’s doing it to both of them.

Yeah, sounds like me. 🤣 Izzy-Iago playing both sides. Luckily with a different outcome in OFMD

Ooh so much to catch up on! Love the Taika/Rita outfit comments. At least you can see how they followed the theme, but I think Rita's dress needed just a few more beads 😆

I am also pondering how the best comedy is often wrapped up inextricably with the best tragedy and hence it's no wonder awards bodies have trouble classifying something complex like this.
Coming back to this comment, @Phineyj . I am currently deep in the throes of it, having watched from Art of Fuckery to Impossible Birds over the last 3 evenings (tonight is Red Flags/The Innkeeper). And it's just reinforcing to me how this show blends comedy and tragedy so well. How you can be laughing or smiling one moment, and then you're plunged into heartbreak and despair. It does make categorisation quite tricksy!

One favourite scene of mine (that's nothing to do with Ed/Stede) is Frenchie and Wee John planning their new room. They are all excitement and ideas at first, till Wee John mentions possibly having people over, and then they go all quiet for several seconds and their faces just drop. I loved these little crew touches that we had time for in S1. I think they did an important job in balancing the emotional turmoil that we got elsewhere in the episodes.

@TriceratopsRocks I love that scene - they are completely flummoxed by the social rules of finally having a room, it’s so sweet and real.

I’ve been watching man on fire today, and they are such a pair of wallies. Both oblivious to each other’s experience, Stede especially so and I credited him with a little more emotional intelligence. And then Ed’s earnest delivery of ‘I’m a fisherman now’ has made me giggle.

Also enjoying listening to the soundtrack on Spotify again today whilst ploughing through references for an essay.

Fuccck FUCCK and storming out…is it Stephen Berkoff who is infamous for this?

No sure if this has been posted here before, but this Tumblr post does an interesting job of exploring the smorgasbord of genres in season 1 of OFMD

https://fuckyeahisawthat.tumblr.com/post/681089155019816960/while-we-like-to-joke-about-izzy-being-in-the

I understand how it’s almost impossible to categorise so will often be overlooked for awards.

I love the Frenchie/Wee John room makeover ideas. I always think they are trying to emulate Stede’s room with their ‘nooks’ and ‘people visiting’. I love that they aren’t bitter, but rather optimistic about working with what they’ve got. Which is not a lot.