Our Flag Means Death. It's utterly brilliant and I am obsessed!

[TriceratopsRocks]

I'm sure I found a thread on this series a while ago, but now season 2 is out I've looked back and I can't find anything apart from the renewal petition.

For anyone who hasn't come across it yet, I would thoroughly recommend. It starts off as a sort of workplace comedy set on a pirate ship, sort of in the style of Ghosts, and with a similar fanbase to Good Omens. When the 2nd lead character arrives at the end of episode 3, it starts to change and it only hit me two thirds of the way through season 1 that I was actually watching a very different sort of show to the one I thought I had started watching.

From that point it's phenomenal. The attention to detail is superb. Both leads are clearly neuro diverse, from abusive backgrounds and damaged because of these. They both want what they think the other one has. It's about them discovering themselves, accepting themselves for who they really are, and healing. There is comedy, but also heartbreak and despair. The show handles these so sensitively and accurately, down to minute details, and Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby deserve every award under the sun for their work here.

I don't think I've ever obsessed about a show as much as this one. I've tried to make this not too spoilery in case some of you want to watch it, but really I just want someone to talk to about it! I've already watched it countless times and the more I rewatch the more I appreciate it. I said I was obsessed and I really am!

The show has sadly been cancelled, despite its popularity, and the producers are currently trying to see if it will be picked up by another network. I have read that they are keeping an eye on the iPlayer numbers as part of this, so I also wanted to shamelessly plug it here 😁

If any of you haven't seen it and fancy giving it a try, it grows into itself in the first season and you really need to give it at least 4 episodes (episode 4 is where the main story really starts). Its not a show I would have thought to watch myself (DD wanted me to watch it with her) but I'm so glad I have.

I don't really know what I want from this thread really. I want more people to find it, but I also want to just talk about it and obviously can't do that without more spoilers than I've already given. Help me out people!

I bloody love Stede’s question here. It’s the crux of the whole show!

Yes! I am going to re-listen to that episode, just to the audio to enjoy these smart observations.

As an opera fan, I must say that is definitely the show's Peter Grimes moment (Britten).

A lot of nasty stuff going on in the subtext.

Although at least it all turns out ok(ish) in the end (Britten never does).

While I remember, I find it so inappropriately hilarious on the beach that Zheng has to kick the expiring English soldier off where he's stuck on Stede's cutlass, in order for him to reunite with Ed/Blackbeard.

Zheng hasn't even met Blackbeard at this point, right? And yet she's all just "ok, I'll get on with the actual work shall I then chaps, while you...err OK then..."

Thanks for the explanation, I had forgotten the sound issue altogether.

@MrsJellybee thank you for that post. I'm going to be thinking about this all day! How many times have I watched this show? It's clearly not enough. I feel I now need to start learning psychiatry to understand it properly. I have never understood why Ed doesn't remember the talent show. Now I'm reading about multiple personality/dissociative identity disorder and thinking "yes - it fits".

"Dissociative identity disorder is associated with overwhelming experiences, traumatic events and/or abuse that occurred in childhood."
"Key symptoms include memory loss, dissociation, changing identities with distinct personalities, memory issues such as amnesia and foreign objects, depersonalization, derealization, unexpected emotional changes, physical sensations without apparent causes, and behaviors such as hearing voices"
"The dissociative aspect is thought to be a coping mechanism -- you literally shut off or dissociate yourself from a situation or experience that's too violent, traumatic, or painful to assimilate with your conscious self."

I need to re-read your post a few times, I think. I had got Ed pinned as having buried his 'real' Ed personality deep down, and instead he'd been performing the BB mask most of his life as a survival mechanism. But the 'real' Ed was still there and on meeting Stede, he recognised a kindred spirit who he could be himself with. But the BB personality was so ingrained by that time, he could switch it on at will, automatically switching to whichever mask/personality fitted each situation he was in - eg with Izzy in S1E4 (which I agree was horrifying - it made me really question what I thought I had seen so far. Then I decided he must have made it up on the spur of the moment to buy himself time while he tried to make sense of what was happening/what he was feeling). And he did it again with the French captain, and when CJ arrived. But now reading your post and the 'psychiatry for dummies' articles I've just seen has made me realise that it's actually much deeper than that. Because his other personalities you mentioned seem more than just 'Ed'. No wonder in S2E7 he doesn't know who he is. Just how good is this show???

@BillStickersIsInnocent I wonder whether Stede’s initial question to Blackbeard “do you work for Blackbeard?” helped Ed with that initial distancing from the Blackbeard persona
Yes. That question (and their following conversation) was fantastic. He suddenly had the chance to not be BB for a little while. And Stede immediately liked and was fascinated by Ed; was excited to show him his secret wardrobe, to play. Stede treated him like a person, instead of a 'persona'. And Ed had been fascinated by Stede since before they even met, so was instantly smitten. I read something (that I now can't find) about Stede giving Ed half a dozen existential crises in the first 10 minutes, starting with the "do you work for BB?", "do you like a fine fabric" etc making Ed really question himself.
But I'm being called so don't have time to think or write more now. I'm going to have to come back to it later. And watch that first meeting, and Ed's episode and all sorts of other bits all over again!

People who have experienced childhood trauma / adverse childhood experiences can lack a ‘healthy template’. This can be seen as a shaky sense of self or a sense of emptiness and a tendency to mimic / act in different roles to try and feel connected to something. It’s a diagnostic feature of borderline personality disorder (I absolute dispute this term and diagnosis as supremely unhelpful). The symptoms are absolutely understandable as a reasonable reaction to trauma.

I read somewhere that initially there was a scene where Ed’s father says to Ed’s mother that Ed was ‘too soft’. I wish they’d kept that in, but perhaps that made Ed too similar to Stede. It’s interesting to consider though that that was originally canon for the writers. The fact that he was ‘soft’ (I hate the word, but it works) perhaps means his resulting trauma is enhanced to a massive degree in order to cope and survive.

@MrsJellybee that’s intriguing, and yes it would probably have made them too similar. I haven’t thought much about Stede’s childhood, which was also horrible. Two deeply damaged men.

On a lighter note I watched a delicious panel interview with Con O’Neil, Nathan Foad and Kristian Nairn. (Apologies for spelling mistakes I’m on the app and it deletes my text here if I close it to search things up). They all just seemed to spark off each other and seem so comfortable in each others company.

And over on Twitter there’s a sweet thread about how different characters would respond to a request to buy sanpro, it made me smile.

@BillStickersIsInnocent i think I’ve seen that interview. It’s lovely chemistry. Is that the one where Nathan gets emotional about fans?

Nathan Foad’s currently in ‘Love’s Labour’s Lost’ at the RSC which is, like, half an hour from me. I looked at the run and don’t think I can fit in a performance. Plus I would definitely fan-girl embarrass myself at the stage door afterwards. It was Foad who got me through the first three episodes before I was enlightened…

@MrsJellybee that’s the one.

I saw he was in that - it’s getting good reviews. I might see if I can go but I would have control myself!

Stratford is only about half an hour from me too. I've been vaguely wondering about it the last few days. Particularly now Basingstoke is sold out so I have missed my chance to meet the delectable Mr Darby.

I had also seen something about a scene where Ed's dad was complaining he was too soft. I think it was the actor who played the dad who talked about it? I'm not sure why they cut it, but we saw anyway from the scenes with his mum that he seemed a gentle boy who loved the soft silk, so maybe they didn't think they needed it?

As for Ed's multiple personalities - this has been on my mind all day. @MrsJellybee and @BillStickersIsInnocent your comments really make sense. I think I was close to where you are on this, but knowing something about neuro diversity and not much about trauma responses I was thinking too much about masks.

And this is a great place for this video, which is rather appropriate following today's discussion. Enjoy!

Perfect!

Woah the lie detector test.

That is brilliant!

Love this although I now have Grace Kelly as an earworm (as I always do when I hear it).

I wonder how music copyright works with this YouTube works of art.

Gaagh! I was at an event at the RSC on Saturday and didn’t even know I was breathing the same (diffused) air etc. I’m sure he is brilliant in the play but I wonder if he gets tumultuous applause, to the bemusement of other audience members.
On the plus side, where I was staying had a GIANT tv with iPlayer, so I took the opportunity to stay up until the small hours looking at details. I was as usual sobbing at mer-Stede (why, it is a happy scene?) but could see the individual sequins this time. Then I laughed aloud when I noticed for the first time that in the sublime 2nd fine-things-well scene, Ed is holding onto his fish the whole time!

Funnily enough I was only wondering the other day what happened to the fish whilst Ed and Stede were smooching. I watch on my iPad which is both small and dark. I wish I could brighten up the screen a bit I must say.

Happy Bank Holiday!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J3VQtyb6iLM

I am thinking the fish went the way of the Strictly accessories. Chucked to someone out of shot! I have no idea what a "Head Grip" actually does but surely catching prop fish must be there on the list.

I started watching WWDITS yesterday and found it quite diverting although probably not enough to commit to all of it.

Thanks @MrsJellybee! The one that runs into is even better, too.

The fish is definitely in Ed's hand the whole time. You can see the string dangling when they start their little hand game, and it's swinging between them when they are walking off deck.

Well clearly I need to have another look at that scene. So that'll be another half an hour gone I expect.

https://twitter.com/vilbbit/status/1712568794810323447

Yeah, he’s holding the fish and Stede grabs the same hand. More symbolism overload!

A half hour very well spent.

Indeed it will be but I really must put it off until tomorrow. I started 106 today with the intention of cherry picking some parts and then . . . .

My current watch through isn't going so well either. I'm on 1.07 but it's been days since I watched 1.06 - I keep getting sidetracked looking at other episodes/clips/interviews/you tube fan edits... But it's also that once I start on 1.07, I need time for the rest of the run to 2.04. That set of episodes is so emotional, it takes it out of you! That and I won't actually want to stop watching...

I know what you mean. I can’t watch the end of ‘Impossible Birds’. I find it so upsetting. If I do I have to watch a happy Ed scene afterwards. Kudos to TW. He’s portrayal of nihilistic grief is so raw.