Our Flag Means Death. It's utterly brilliant and I am obsessed!

[TriceratopsRocks]

I'm sure I found a thread on this series a while ago, but now season 2 is out I've looked back and I can't find anything apart from the renewal petition.

For anyone who hasn't come across it yet, I would thoroughly recommend. It starts off as a sort of workplace comedy set on a pirate ship, sort of in the style of Ghosts, and with a similar fanbase to Good Omens. When the 2nd lead character arrives at the end of episode 3, it starts to change and it only hit me two thirds of the way through season 1 that I was actually watching a very different sort of show to the one I thought I had started watching.

From that point it's phenomenal. The attention to detail is superb. Both leads are clearly neuro diverse, from abusive backgrounds and damaged because of these. They both want what they think the other one has. It's about them discovering themselves, accepting themselves for who they really are, and healing. There is comedy, but also heartbreak and despair. The show handles these so sensitively and accurately, down to minute details, and Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby deserve every award under the sun for their work here.

I don't think I've ever obsessed about a show as much as this one. I've tried to make this not too spoilery in case some of you want to watch it, but really I just want someone to talk to about it! I've already watched it countless times and the more I rewatch the more I appreciate it. I said I was obsessed and I really am!

The show has sadly been cancelled, despite its popularity, and the producers are currently trying to see if it will be picked up by another network. I have read that they are keeping an eye on the iPlayer numbers as part of this, so I also wanted to shamelessly plug it here 😁

If any of you haven't seen it and fancy giving it a try, it grows into itself in the first season and you really need to give it at least 4 episodes (episode 4 is where the main story really starts). Its not a show I would have thought to watch myself (DD wanted me to watch it with her) but I'm so glad I have.

I don't really know what I want from this thread really. I want more people to find it, but I also want to just talk about it and obviously can't do that without more spoilers than I've already given. Help me out people!

As far as sharing the love goes, I’ve just convinced a friend who gave up halfway through S1.1 (‘awful and not funny at all’), to give it another go. When I mentioned the two leads are from NZ she suddenly had a lightbulb moment – it turns out she can quote whole scenes of Flight of the Conchords and Wilderpeople is one of her favourite films but she hadn’t worked out it was Rhys and didn’t know Taika was in it as she'd given up so early. And last week I watched everything from S1.4 (apart from the first two of S2 as she would’ve found those too much) with my 84-year-old mum. I absolutely didn’t expect it to be her thing (far too sweary) but she wanted to stick with it at 1.4 and we ended up watching all of the last three and a half episodes the night before she went home as she ‘had to know they stayed together in the end’.

Totally agree about the lack of promotion and it's so disappointing to wonder whether S3 might have been happening if that had been managed better. For me, a couple of friends suggested it a year or so ago as something to watch with teenaged boys that I might like too, but I thought it would be all violent and alpha male – how wrong I was! Apart from that I didn’t see any trailers or anything on iplayer – the only thing I’d seen about was in passing on twitter when it was cancelled (oh the irony!). It’s baffling that the BBC didn’t heavily promote it. And I agree too fromt what I’ve seen looking back at videos/articles promoting both seasons – there’s such a change in the angle from S1 zany absurd comedy to S2 the love story being placed at the centre – almost like two different shows. I just listened to a interview with (I think) DJ and TW in which the interviewer talked about the fun bromance (he’d just seen the first half of the season) and DW/TW didn’t hint that it was much more than that. I can see why they wanted it to be a surprise but I think being more open about what the show is really about might have brought in a different and maybe bigger audience from the start.

Gay pirate brain rot is a disaster for a wfh freelancer too – I’m having to reward myself for each hour's billable work with five minutes on here or on youtube but there’s just so much tempting stuff to watch and the youtube algorithm is so helpful!

Nice article about the make-up designer. Also check out the size of the film crew!

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/500240/meet-the-kiwi-make-up-artist-who-transforms-taika

Good article, thank you :) I'm sure I remember something about S1 filming in LA had really long days (12, 14 hours? And they really did fall asleep on deck at the end of S1E1) whereas S2 in NZ had strict 8 hour days. Maybe a 780 strong film crew for S2 was part of the reason for that?

Yes good point, that makes sense. I’m in awe at the organisation and complexity of it all.

Just been out with a few friends for dinner, and took the brave step of recommending OFMD, I agree with the feeling that it is so precious that I would find it hard if people didn't like it.
I stole some of your wording in your first post @TriceratopsRocks as it was that which made me want to start watching it in the first place. They were intrigued!

Despite my lack of love for the final two episodes I reached them in my latest rewatch. Something I noticed in 207 is that guy called Steak Knife appears and is then killed by Zheng. Stede seems extremely upset about his demise and yet I can't remember seeing him before.

Have I missed something?

TriceratopsRocks -And that reminds me of a comment I think @MrsJellybee made upthread somewhere about Stede using his Captain voice. This is Ed's face when he is getting Stede to practice it...(story don’t know how to copy the picture)……

and the breathing - did we all notice the breathing?!! Watch his chest 🤣😍

Sorry just realised it’s a photo not a clip- but the scene is easily found on YouTube x

@CarlaH I thought the point was Stede had over imbibed (not having listened to Ed's sensible advice re accepting free drinks) and therefore everyone was his best pal. Including people he'd just met.

Did Zheng kill him? I thought it was some kind of Vulcan death grip?!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wA4FFfARsgE&pp=ygUgRWQgY2F0IGJlbGwgYmVlIHRoZSBjYXB0YWluIG9mbWQ%3D

As someone states in the comments, Kink unlocked

Never be scared to recommend anything to anyone.... unless they need trigger warnings for stuff what with modern life and that.

It might have been something they filmed for the 10 parter before it got cut to an 8 parter maybe?

Oh yes. The look and the breathing. But is this Ed discovering a kink, or is he actually deliberately coaching Stede for later? I mean, we've seen that look in his eyes before when Stede gives him orders. It's not the first time, and he always then does what he's told...

Also, having carried out extensive research, I can confirm that Stede normally leaves his rings on to sleep, whereas Ed is still wearing his the morning after. So I think the evidence of what went on the night before is quite conclusive, and it totally fits with their characters in S2. 😁

I think it was this - and also with Ed having just left him, he was feeling insecure and reaching out for anyone to be his friend. The crew are doing their own thing and he's worried about them leaving (Olu said he wanted to go with Zheng). So I think he's panicking; terrified of losing what he has left, hence Steak-knife's demise affecting him (I'm not sure he's dead though - more likely just unconscious).

I mean, we've seen that look in his eyes before when Stede gives him orders

Oh, we have! 1.5 ‘Stand down, now!’ Can you imagine anyone else (possibly Izzy) saying that to Blackbeard and living? I read a lovely piece the other day where someone suggested that amongst the multi personalities of Ed/Blackbeard/EmoPoet/Kraken, there is a ‘Stede’s Ed’. An Ed only for Stede. It’s why Stede never thinks he is physically at risk from Ed. When Zheng asks if Stede’s worried Ed will kill him after seeing the charge list, that never crosses Stede’s mind because it can never be true. Stede just thinks Ed’s life is better without him as he’s such a ‘loser’. But not so. Stede can get away with anything with Ed so long as he doesn’t leave or seem to be leaving him. Ed would rearrange the stars for Stede.

I can confirm that Stede normally leaves his rings on to sleep, whereas Ed is still wearing his the morning after

I head canoned this correctly. Thank you for your impeccable research, @TriceratopsRocks 🤣😍

Here's Ed being told to stand down... Look how wide-eyed he is.

But I'd never seen Ed as having multiple personalities. There's Ed (which would be Stede's Ed, and also EmoPoet Ed, who I think are both 'real' Ed), and there are a series of masks he puts on to cope or survive in different situations. We are shown again and again that Ed is not a violent person. He's gentle. He's enthusiastic. He tries to warn people if they are pushing him too far to give them a chance to stop. I think neither BB and Kraken are really Ed - they are both masks he has put on because they are necessary for him to survive at the time. This is the first time I've thought about this. It bears more consideration I think :)

You can see that very clearly when he takes over interrogating the French captain. He can switch manic staring eyed Blackbeard on and off like a tap (at least, he can at that stage).

Yes - the BB mask is one he's been wearing for most of his life, so it's natural that he can just slip into it. It's the one he felt he needed to survive in a world where traditional (toxic) masculinity rules. But we can see from the start that it just isn't him. From his first meeting Stede he has been gentle, caring, and liking a (soft) fine fabric :) That's the real Ed. He was delighted with everything he found on the Revenge and having met a kindred spirit in Stede, was happy not to have to 'perform' BB and just be himself.

I head canoned this correctly. Thank you for your impeccable research, @TriceratopsRocks 🤣😍

My pleasure, @MrsJellybee . You can guess what I was thinking about all afternoon (I was painting trellis in the garden for about 4 hours, so my mind had plenty of time to wander)!

Well I am glad that I hadn't missed Steak Knife as a regular character. I would have thought I was going mad if I had given how many times I have watched. Izzy knew him as well so I assume we are meant to think he has been around for a while but, as has been mentioned, maybe his other interactions just got cut for time because pacing in the second series, particularly in the latter half, was an issue.

I really think that the finale of season one was one of the best constructed pieces of television I have ever seen. I marvel at how much they packed into that 35 minutes or so and I am sad that they were so constrained in season two.

I think Ed’s personality is unmoored. I do think the ‘healthy Ed’ is the one who fancies ‘a fine fabric’ (btw, that is such an unintended, loaded ‘cruising’ line delivered by Stede!) The Kraken persona and the Blackbeard persona are trauma responses in which the personality fragments in order to cope, but I’m not sure that makes them any less ‘real’. Rather I think of them as ‘unhealthy Ed’. Our personalities are shaped partly by our life experiences, and Ed committed patricide as a child. Blackbeard is a coping mechanism for that, but very much part of who he is.

Hearing about, then meeting Stede, releases a long-buried ‘healthy Ed’ or ‘Jeff’. I think the way Ed then switches between Ed/Jeff and Blackbeard is uncanny. In S1.4, he is Ed in the crows nest with Stede eating marmalade. Then we have a visual descent down to Izzy where he reverts to Blackbeard seamlessly, and discusses Stede’s murder. The first time I watched this I was horrified. The sincerity of Ed and Stede’s first meeting, the swapping of clothes, the lighthouse plan, the sleeping and breakfasting in the crows nest… and it’s all a lie, a ruse? Except it’s not. Both versions are ‘true’, and one of them must ‘die’. I didn’t understand the complexity of the story yet. It’s a psychological masterpiece. I love it so much.

Watching Ed fragment further into various roles Poet/Kraken/Fisherman just reinforces how fragmented he really is when he can’t be ‘healthy Ed’. There’s evidence of disassociation right until the end. He doesn’t remember the talent show, he has a very strange episode when he arrives back at the destroyed Republic of Pirates in S2.8. I think DJ said that at the end of series 2 Ed is still in recovery. Stede is a huge part of Ed being ‘healthy’, but I’m really glad he doesn’t seem to be the whole. The innkeeper dream is a huge part of Ed becoming ‘healthy Ed’. He can’t own it yet, which is why he calls the role ‘Jeff’. Hopefully, Jeff will become redundant eventually and Ed will be able to see himself as a healthy person who deserves happiness, and just be ‘Ed’.

Right, must tend to family and Bank Holiday things else I’ll do this all day!

A fantastic post Mrs Jellybee.

May I ask what you mean about the 'strange episode'?

I wonder whether Stede’s initial question to Blackbeard “do you work for Blackbeard?” helped Ed with that initial distancing from the Blackbeard persona/ presented him with options. Ed’s reflective response speaks volumes I think.

@CarlaH I think the ‘strange episode’ is when Ed arrives back to see all the ships burning and his first thought is of Stede. The sound muffles which I guess represents some sort of dissociation / reconnection with Blackbeard as he then kills the English soldiers. I think, I could be wrong!

When Ed arrives at the port and sees the destruction, he hears a number of screams and cries which are likely external sounds. But as the camera zooms into his face, the cries become more echoey and internalised. The crying is high-pitched, becomes more womanly or childlike (young Ed?), then he says ‘Stede’ and hears Stede call for ‘help’ in his mind. I think we get a real insight into Ed’s trauma here. He is still that child who killed to protect his mother, the only other person he has ever loved in a healthy way. The past becomes the present, and he needs to become the Kraken and kill with his own hands again one last time to save the person he loves. There is then a high-pitched note which resonates and stifles the voices of the two approaching English sailors in which Ed seems to completely dissociate. Next shot they’re dead. He leaves the sea to the Kraken theme. Then he kills the two on the beach whilst reading the letter to the Gnossienne. But I also only noticed the other day that after ‘You wrote me a lovely letter!’, the Blackbeard theme plays again! He’s an absolute mess internally!