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The Reckoning: Jimmy Savile - BBC1 9 Oct SPOILERS

240 replies

YokoOnosBigHat · 09/10/2023 11:48

I couldn't see a thread for the five part drama The Reckoning starring Steve Coogan as Jimmy Savile, so thought I'd start one.

I'm in bed with Covid so have decided to start watching. Half an hour into the first episode and I can safely already say that Coogan's performance is extraordinary. The voice, the mannerisms, they're amazing.

For anyone interested and who isn't familiar, the framing device of Savile telling his life story for an author interested in writing a book is based around Dan Davies's research for his account 'In Plain Sight'. Well worth a read for anyone who wants to know more about how the establishment wilfully ignored what was going on right under their noses.

Interesting article on the drama by Mark Lawson for The Guardian here and Lawson's account of how he tried and failed to report Savile at the BBC in 2006 here.

Look forward to discussing this all. Have marked it as spoilers as all parts are on iPlayer and are there really any spoilers possible for this story?!

OP posts:
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CesareBorgia · 20/10/2023 17:20

Utterbunkum · 20/10/2023 10:20

@TrouserTownie it's horrifying. One wonders what Thatcher would have had to say for herself had she been in a position to be asked (can't recall if she died before it came out).

The Broadmoor business beggared belief. Even if he hadn't been what we now know he was, why on earth would you give a DJ/TV presenter the running of a place like that? What qualifications did he have to manage a facility with some of the most dangerous and disturbed people in the country in it?

Thatcher died two years after Savile but she had suffered a stroke and been seriously ill during most of that time, so was retired from public life.

Utterbunkum · 20/10/2023 17:28

@CesareBorgia thank you, I knew she couldn't have spoken about it but couldn't remember if she had actually passed away by that point.

newnamethanks · 20/10/2023 18:01

There must be official correspondence covering the bizarre situation of Savile being given carte blanche to do as he pleased in Broadmoor, Stoke Mandeville, Jimmy's in Leeds? Wonder if it's in the National Archives? Pound to a penny it's not available.

CesareBorgia · 20/10/2023 18:20

newnamethanks · 20/10/2023 18:01

There must be official correspondence covering the bizarre situation of Savile being given carte blanche to do as he pleased in Broadmoor, Stoke Mandeville, Jimmy's in Leeds? Wonder if it's in the National Archives? Pound to a penny it's not available.

There's some information in this report:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/jimmy-savile-nhs-investigations-lessons-learned

Jimmy Savile NHS investigations: lessons learned

Recommendations for the NHS and government following the investigations into the activities of Jimmy Savile relating to the NHS.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/jimmy-savile-nhs-investigations-lessons-learned

newnamethanks · 20/10/2023 18:21

Thank you Cesare

Toddlerteaplease · 20/10/2023 20:19

Omg I wish I'd fast forwarded the mortuary scene.

Toddlerteaplease · 20/10/2023 20:27

No one would be preset for his last confession though.

CesareBorgia · 20/10/2023 20:29

I suppose the 'seal of the confessional' means we will never know whether he confessed any of his crimes to a priest.

Toddlerteaplease · 20/10/2023 21:50

No. But if he was told to have himself in, and didn't. Or was not truly repentant. (Doubt he was) The absolution given is null and void.

CesareBorgia · 20/10/2023 23:23

Indeed - as they fictionalised his sort-of confession, the priest told him 'his friend' must give himself up. Savile's repeat offending, for the rest of his life, showed there was no repentance for his sins.

Utterbunkum · 21/10/2023 09:40

@Toddlerteaplease I know what you mean about the mortuary scene. It was like those horror movies where you think you know what's coming and cover your face with a cushion....

Dumbocracy · 21/10/2023 10:47

In fact, I think he did it-someone like him with a dead female in front of him, he'd have not been able to resist, no matter who it was-perhaps even more attracted because of who it was!

@CrapGoat I think at least part of what he may or may not have done to his mother he would have seen as payback for her not protecting, or perhaps even loving, him.

Emotionalsupportviper · 23/10/2023 14:18

EmpressSisi · 11/10/2023 08:31

I never liked him and thought he was a creepy old man. But I was born in the 90s and my first experience of seeing him was the 2007 Jim’ll Fix It rehash. My sister forced me to watch it with her. She was born in the 80s and loved the original series/had written in to the show. She watched with fond nostalgia. I just saw a creepy old has been. I might have felt differently if I was born during his heyday. My sister was shocked but quickly joined up the dots.

I was devastated about Rolf Harris though! Absolutely adored him 🤦🏼‍♀️A lesson learnt not to put celebrities on a pedestal.

I was born in the fifties and always considered Savil a vile old perv - it was written all over him. I watched a couple of "Jim'll Fix It" episodes, and you could see the cruelty and contempt for the children oozing out of him.

Like you, though, I was taken completely off guard by Rolf Harris. I was so shocked and disappointed. Nothing about him set my "spidey-senses" off at all, and I generally am on high alert where this sort of stuff is concerned.

Brumbies · 23/10/2023 15:13

Just watched it. The acting by all was superb.

Hate JS and what he did.

x2boys · 23/10/2023 15:13

Emotionalsupportviper · 23/10/2023 14:18

I was born in the fifties and always considered Savil a vile old perv - it was written all over him. I watched a couple of "Jim'll Fix It" episodes, and you could see the cruelty and contempt for the children oozing out of him.

Like you, though, I was taken completely off guard by Rolf Harris. I was so shocked and disappointed. Nothing about him set my "spidey-senses" off at all, and I generally am on high alert where this sort of stuff is concerned.

Tbf you would probably have a different perspective than me as I was
born in 1973 so.wasn't born when top.of the pops started and was too.young to be interested on pop.music in the 70,s
I loved jim,I'll fix it but not really because of him more the idea of the show
And I didn't think too deeply about his character he was. Just over the top and flamboyant in my childlike mind

Toddlerteaplease · 23/10/2023 15:14

I loved Jim'll fix it. Was too young to think anything else about it.

Utterbunkum · 23/10/2023 15:41

x2boys · 23/10/2023 15:13

Tbf you would probably have a different perspective than me as I was
born in 1973 so.wasn't born when top.of the pops started and was too.young to be interested on pop.music in the 70,s
I loved jim,I'll fix it but not really because of him more the idea of the show
And I didn't think too deeply about his character he was. Just over the top and flamboyant in my childlike mind

Edited

Same here, but there was something I picked up on. I wondered why he wasn't involved in the children in need telethons in the early eighties. I even asked my mum why he didn't appear, since he was a kids show presenter and known for fundraising. I thought it was weird. I remember that question coming back to me when it all came out and it transpired the charities involved in CIN didn't want him near it and I found it chilling that despite that pretty damning fact, he was allowed to continue presenting a kid's show. It's staggering how much was known/suspected and yet there he still was.

x2boys · 23/10/2023 16:10

Utterbunkum · 23/10/2023 15:41

Same here, but there was something I picked up on. I wondered why he wasn't involved in the children in need telethons in the early eighties. I even asked my mum why he didn't appear, since he was a kids show presenter and known for fundraising. I thought it was weird. I remember that question coming back to me when it all came out and it transpired the charities involved in CIN didn't want him near it and I found it chilling that despite that pretty damning fact, he was allowed to continue presenting a kid's show. It's staggering how much was known/suspected and yet there he still was.

Yes indeed I think.it goes far deeper than we know.

Emotionalsupportviper · 23/10/2023 18:28

Toddlerteaplease · 23/10/2023 15:14

I loved Jim'll fix it. Was too young to think anything else about it.

Yours and @x2boys ' innocence was exactly what used.

"Look at me! I'm just so much fun and so quirky!" All of those poor children - boys and girls - predated by this vile man.

Some people are blaming the fact that his mother didn't love him. Lots of children aren't loved. Lots (in that era particularly) were beaten. People believed that to spare the rod was to spoil the child. It didn't turn them all into cruel, heartless perverts.

I think she found him hard work - she had six other children, and he came along later in life, and the family - like many at the time - was very short of money. Life was hard for all working people then. There was a depression which got worse and worse, effectively until the war started in 1939 (and of course there was further privation afterwards). I'm sure that he suffered want - almost everyone did. He was born the year after my dad, in a similar working class pit town. According to Wikipedia, he left school at 14, and got an office job. My dad left school at 14 and went into the merchant navy. Savile was sent down the mines when he was 18 - my dad had been on ships which were protecting convoys from being 15 years old. My paternal grandfather had abandoned the family when my dad and his brother were still infants, so their mother really struggled in those days before the welfare state - would have had much less money than the Savile family. I just mention this to show that Savile might have had it hard, but he didn't have it any harder than most, and cushier than some.

"The Duchess" was probably exhausted and worried sick about making ends meet - I daresay she was short-tempered. Did she love him enough? She loved him enough to pray for his recovery when he was seriously ill as an infant. Women then weren't as "huggy" on the whole as women are now. They didn't have time to sit and indulge their children. Every meal had to be made from scratch; all washing was done by hand, or in a big copper boiler using a washboard; all dishes washed by hand; most children's and women's clothes hand made - and this was a family of seven. I doubt she had the time or energy to sit and read with him, play with him etc - it doesn't mean she didn't care for him.

One of his older brothers was also a sexual offender. Nature or nurture? Both, I would think, though I think it's unfair to put all of the blame onto his mother. He had a father, too, remember, and 6 older siblings (2 brothers, 4 sisters). Any and all of them could have contributed to his nature. Or he could just have been born nasty. Pity nobody ever got to speak to any of his classmates, old girlfriends, schoolteachers etc.

Edit: Grammar

Toddlerteaplease · 23/10/2023 18:49

@Utterbunkum that's an interesting point. Not was he involved in the early days of Comic relief, now I think of it. Interesting.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 23/10/2023 18:59

Watched the whole thing now. Tour de force from Steve Coogan, but it was a tough watch.

For what it's worth, I was born in the early 1960s. Savile was a few years older than my parents. We lived in Leeds in the 1970s and I don't remember hearing anything about him, but we didn't move in circles where that was likely. I never liked him. I didn't get any sense of him being predatory, I just didn't like his personality and mannerisms. I thought he was weird. I was too old to watch Jim'll Fix It really, and found it all very contrived.

On a selfish note, I do enjoy seeing old Top of the Pops episodes, but there are many the BBC won't broadcast because one or both of the presenters (not just Savile) is now persona non grata. A shame they can't use AI to edit these vile specimens out.

RaelImperialAerosolKid · 23/10/2023 19:19

@Emotionalsupportviper - my grandma lived near them as a child and went to the same primary school. She wouldn't have him on the tv or radio - didn't say why just 'not in this house'.

MartyFunkhouser · 23/10/2023 19:55

I hope Steve Coogan gets an award for this.

It’s the only drama I can think of in recent memory where friends/colleagues/family are all talking about it and saying how brilliant Steve Coogan is.

FictionalCharacter · 23/10/2023 20:08

@Emotionalsupportviper Both of his brothers were sex offenders. Johnnie and Vince. So that’s all 3 brothers in the family. IIRC, one of their nephews too.

x2boys · 23/10/2023 21:08

Emotionalsupportviper · 23/10/2023 18:28

Yours and @x2boys ' innocence was exactly what used.

"Look at me! I'm just so much fun and so quirky!" All of those poor children - boys and girls - predated by this vile man.

Some people are blaming the fact that his mother didn't love him. Lots of children aren't loved. Lots (in that era particularly) were beaten. People believed that to spare the rod was to spoil the child. It didn't turn them all into cruel, heartless perverts.

I think she found him hard work - she had six other children, and he came along later in life, and the family - like many at the time - was very short of money. Life was hard for all working people then. There was a depression which got worse and worse, effectively until the war started in 1939 (and of course there was further privation afterwards). I'm sure that he suffered want - almost everyone did. He was born the year after my dad, in a similar working class pit town. According to Wikipedia, he left school at 14, and got an office job. My dad left school at 14 and went into the merchant navy. Savile was sent down the mines when he was 18 - my dad had been on ships which were protecting convoys from being 15 years old. My paternal grandfather had abandoned the family when my dad and his brother were still infants, so their mother really struggled in those days before the welfare state - would have had much less money than the Savile family. I just mention this to show that Savile might have had it hard, but he didn't have it any harder than most, and cushier than some.

"The Duchess" was probably exhausted and worried sick about making ends meet - I daresay she was short-tempered. Did she love him enough? She loved him enough to pray for his recovery when he was seriously ill as an infant. Women then weren't as "huggy" on the whole as women are now. They didn't have time to sit and indulge their children. Every meal had to be made from scratch; all washing was done by hand, or in a big copper boiler using a washboard; all dishes washed by hand; most children's and women's clothes hand made - and this was a family of seven. I doubt she had the time or energy to sit and read with him, play with him etc - it doesn't mean she didn't care for him.

One of his older brothers was also a sexual offender. Nature or nurture? Both, I would think, though I think it's unfair to put all of the blame onto his mother. He had a father, too, remember, and 6 older siblings (2 brothers, 4 sisters). Any and all of them could have contributed to his nature. Or he could just have been born nasty. Pity nobody ever got to speak to any of his classmates, old girlfriends, schoolteachers etc.

Edit: Grammar

Edited

Exactly with hindsight its terrifying this monster was allowed to present such a popular children's tv program
Its the very definition of within plain sight
Regarding his mother I had two Catholic Grandmother, s who.were probably not that much younger than his mum
My Dads mum had six children and they lived in a,three bedroom terrace in Manchester ( after they emigrated from.Ireland ) I don't doubt she loved her kids but yes she wasn't particularly demonstrative ,in her love she certainly made sure their basic needs were taken care of but it wasn't a particularly easy life .