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The Reckoning: Jimmy Savile - BBC1 9 Oct SPOILERS

240 replies

YokoOnosBigHat · 09/10/2023 11:48

I couldn't see a thread for the five part drama The Reckoning starring Steve Coogan as Jimmy Savile, so thought I'd start one.

I'm in bed with Covid so have decided to start watching. Half an hour into the first episode and I can safely already say that Coogan's performance is extraordinary. The voice, the mannerisms, they're amazing.

For anyone interested and who isn't familiar, the framing device of Savile telling his life story for an author interested in writing a book is based around Dan Davies's research for his account 'In Plain Sight'. Well worth a read for anyone who wants to know more about how the establishment wilfully ignored what was going on right under their noses.

Interesting article on the drama by Mark Lawson for The Guardian here and Lawson's account of how he tried and failed to report Savile at the BBC in 2006 here.

Look forward to discussing this all. Have marked it as spoilers as all parts are on iPlayer and are there really any spoilers possible for this story?!

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Emotionalsupportviper · 24/10/2023 09:17

she wasn't particularly demonstrative ,in her love she certainly made sure their basic needs were taken care of but it wasn't a particularly easy life

I think ensuring the children's needs were met was their demonstration of love, @x2boys - As you say, not an easy life.

I'm 70, and was brought up in a very deprived area of the NE. I can remember washing day. It took ALL DAY. Clothes, bedding towels etc, everything except the clothes on your back was done on the same day (Monday), by hand, and on wet days everything had to be dried indoors. I can remember the walls running with condensation, and sheets etc, hung all over the house. All of our neighbours' houses were the same. There was no hot water in the scullery (1) either - all water had to be boiled in the kitchen and carried through, and the copper had to be filled and emptied by hand. It was a heavy job.

There was also much more social pressure on women then to be seen to be "clean" - washing nets, donkey-stoning the front step etc.

Nowadays it is much easier for most of us to maintain high standards of cleanliness, and less judgement (I expect) if they slip - just because on the whole people aren't in and out of each others' houses the way they used to be.

  1. The sculleries were small lean-toos attached to the exterior of the house, in the backyard.
Utterbunkum · 24/10/2023 10:54

Saville might have been abused himself, which can result in people going on to abuse, but I don't think it's that cut and dried. Most abused people don't go on to abuse. A difficult childhood isn't reason enough on its own. Many have difficult childhoods as others have said, and don't do things like that. The blame can't be laid at his mother's door, though it might be a contributing factor.
I did see a documentary once that said for some paedophiles it is like a disease they can't control. But those people tend to be deeply conscious of it and actively avoid being near young people, even begging to have treatment to suppress their sexual urges. That definitely wasn't Saville.
He knew what he was doing. He had no empathy, he only cared for himself.

The drama suggested his religion may have made him think he could balance his evil with charity work, but I don't entirely believe that. I think his charity work a tool he used to hide. 'oh, but Jimmy does so much for charity'. He didn't give a shit about the causes he raised money for. He gave a shit about the public perception of himself he thought that created. There was a lot of narcissistic behaviour.
We will never know the 'why'. But knowing the 'how' can at least help prevent anyone else getting away with it.

Emotionalsupportviper · 24/10/2023 11:31

He also sought fame and fortune not just for his own narcissistic satisfaction, or even because he feared poverty, but because he knew that they would offer him protection - he could call on a wealthy, influential friend and get accusations brushed under the carpet; he could threaten people with lawyers, knowing that they couldn't afford to defend a lawsuit - and of course, he could use that high public profile to carry out further abuse on vulnerable children and women.

It struck me, too, that he was also motivated not just by getting what he wanted, but by trying to destroy other people's lives and relationships. The hospital porter who had known him since school (but didn't really want him in the hospital) - he assaulted his wife, tried to stop them buying a retirement home, forced himself into a starring role at the man's funeral.

He couldn't allow anyone to have any joy, any pleasure in their lives - he did everything he could to poison everything around him.

Utterbunkum · 24/10/2023 11:53

@Emotionalsupportviper I don't know, I don't think he thought about other people enough for that. I got the impression he only saw other people as a personal means to an end. He wasn't interested enough in them or their relationships to be motivated by destroying them. I thought he didn't want the couple in Scarborough because he knew the wife didn't like him and he didn't want her yapping about his behaviour in Leeds to other people. His old 'friend' had outlived his usefulness as a means of access to anywhere, like he was at leeds and Saville didn't really want anyone around who might be inclined to keep a close eye on him.
That's what I took from that, though I could be wrong. Throughout, Saville appeared to actively avoid personal relationships unless they benefitted him. He used his victims and his enablers. I don't think whether they were destroyed by him or not came into it, because they only existed for him whilst he was using them. What happened to them after only concerned him if it resulted in a threat to his position..
Again, I could be wrong, but it's how I see it.. as I said, we will never know, but there's a kind of fascinated horror in speculating.

Emotionalsupportviper · 24/10/2023 13:28

YokoOnosBigHat · 09/10/2023 11:48

I couldn't see a thread for the five part drama The Reckoning starring Steve Coogan as Jimmy Savile, so thought I'd start one.

I'm in bed with Covid so have decided to start watching. Half an hour into the first episode and I can safely already say that Coogan's performance is extraordinary. The voice, the mannerisms, they're amazing.

For anyone interested and who isn't familiar, the framing device of Savile telling his life story for an author interested in writing a book is based around Dan Davies's research for his account 'In Plain Sight'. Well worth a read for anyone who wants to know more about how the establishment wilfully ignored what was going on right under their noses.

Interesting article on the drama by Mark Lawson for The Guardian here and Lawson's account of how he tried and failed to report Savile at the BBC in 2006 here.

Look forward to discussing this all. Have marked it as spoilers as all parts are on iPlayer and are there really any spoilers possible for this story?!

I have just finished reading the Mark Lawson article - thank you for linking it - it is well worth a read.

Can't help but think that so many people have been put into prison for not paying a TV licence, while the people who turned a blonde eye to this foul predator's behaviour prospered and retired on lovely fat pensions, and even got away with having to accept any responsibility (a real 3 monkeys bunch) - paid for by us!

Emotionalsupportviper · 24/10/2023 13:34

Utterbunkum · 24/10/2023 11:53

@Emotionalsupportviper I don't know, I don't think he thought about other people enough for that. I got the impression he only saw other people as a personal means to an end. He wasn't interested enough in them or their relationships to be motivated by destroying them. I thought he didn't want the couple in Scarborough because he knew the wife didn't like him and he didn't want her yapping about his behaviour in Leeds to other people. His old 'friend' had outlived his usefulness as a means of access to anywhere, like he was at leeds and Saville didn't really want anyone around who might be inclined to keep a close eye on him.
That's what I took from that, though I could be wrong. Throughout, Saville appeared to actively avoid personal relationships unless they benefitted him. He used his victims and his enablers. I don't think whether they were destroyed by him or not came into it, because they only existed for him whilst he was using them. What happened to them after only concerned him if it resulted in a threat to his position..
Again, I could be wrong, but it's how I see it.. as I said, we will never know, but there's a kind of fascinated horror in speculating.

You may be right. In fact, the more I think of it, the more I think you are.

I am probably crediting him with being more aware other people as human beings than he was. The toxicity was just part of him and overflowed, as evil seems to do far more easily than good, alas.

x2boys · 24/10/2023 14:37

I.wasI treated in the Catholic side of him.being a very lapsed catholic myself
It was inferred that he thought the good would outweigh the bad so all fundraising and millions he had raised would get him " into heaven" I wonder if that as just poetic licence or he really did have some kind of belief?

NewspaperTaxis · 24/10/2023 22:21

The Mark Lawson piece is highly persuasive but only up to a point - he cites the chanting of football fans about Savile's activities in the morgue as if to say, hey, even they knew about it back then, why wasn't it acted upon? But you don't really take footie chants at face value, do you. You'd see it as mischief making. Same with John Lydon - I know he's almost a national treasure now, due to his butter adverts, I'm a Celeb appearance, the fact that punk never did finish off the Royal family but probably made them stronger and of course the circumstances around his wife's decline. But as punk Johnny Rotten, mouthing off about Savile with no evidence would have seemed the usual rabble rousing, same as with the Bill Grundy interview where they rounded on him, calling him a 'dirty old man'.

And Savile himself addressed rumours of his being around dead bodies in an interview with Q journalist Tom Hibbert - the magazine did a piece called 'Who the Hell does [insert name of celebrity) Think He/She Is?' where an unsuspecting celeb gets raked over the coals. Savile acquitted himself well, explaining how in his role at the hospital he saw it as a privilege to be around the recently deceased for a short while, to wish them well on their way. Now, you could argue his polished response might be a bit suspect, that most folk facing such accusations when innocent would splutter their outrage, but then really, what can you say? Talked about how he didn't care for kids generally, made sure he wasn't left alone with them for fear of false accusations, said his presence on Jim'll Fix It was a buzz for them but that's all. He said all the right things, and Hibbert failed to nail him really, or land a punch if I recall. Same when he interviewed Rolf Harris or Gary Glitter - okay, they seemed a bit buffoonish but so what.

Savile also appeared on the radio show by Anthony Clare, The Psychiatrist's Chair. Clare seemed determined to make out Savile was a closet homosexual - well, the checklist is there - never married nor long-term girlfriend, worship of his mother whom he called 'the Duchess' and keeping her clothes in a wardrobe after her death, plus Clare made much of a young lad's funeral Savile had been broken up over, hinting. This was in the day when gayness was seen as something to be outed, like producing a card from behind someone's ear. None of this really went anywhere. Or John Harris' Britpop bio The Last Party describes how Savile was at Chequers for a Xmas party in the Blair years, sucking on a female guest's fingers. But none of this does anything other than show how he could ride his luck.

I don't want to dwell on this but I don't really know how anyone found out or had evidence of any misdeeds in a mortuary. There was a truly grim story in the last year about how a mortuary attendant had been found guilty of such things. Once found out, he confessed to many more - but why would he do that? And how did they find out? Did they have CCTV cameras? If they saw him do it once, would they let him continue to 'build a case'? Why would the accused then fess up to dozens more such crimes when a one-off might - albeit implausibly and still unforgivably - be claimed to be a 'moment of madness'? Or is it the usual State thing, that if you engage in dirty behaviour and have dirty secrets, you may be trusted with other dirty secrets on the basis they've got something on you and are unlikely to whistleblow?

Emotionalsupportviper · 25/10/2023 15:36

@FictionalCharacter

Sickening beyond belief! It's staggering how foul someone's behaviour could be. Absolutely unspeakable. 😡

Lalgarh · 31/10/2023 21:00

Itv1 documentary on Rolf Harris, also going with the "hiding in plain sight" line.

GonnaGetGoingReturns · 31/10/2023 21:17

Lalgarh · 31/10/2023 21:00

Itv1 documentary on Rolf Harris, also going with the "hiding in plain sight" line.

I just saw that… ugh. Nasty man.

Paul2023 · 24/11/2023 15:32

I’m late to the party and currently on episode 3. Was the story about the young girl he met at TOTP , who later committed suicide true or was it made for dramatic purposes?

Although Steve Coogan is taller than Saville was, he’s very convincing. Excellent acting but hard to watch in places.

FictionalCharacter · 24/11/2023 15:37

Paul2023 · 24/11/2023 15:32

I’m late to the party and currently on episode 3. Was the story about the young girl he met at TOTP , who later committed suicide true or was it made for dramatic purposes?

Although Steve Coogan is taller than Saville was, he’s very convincing. Excellent acting but hard to watch in places.

That is true but they changed her name. Her name was Claire.

Paul2023 · 24/11/2023 16:57

There’s a clip on YouTube of Jimmy Saville on a talk show with Steve Coogan. He actually does an impression of him.
Quite surreal that many years later Coogan would actually play Saville , knowing what we know now.

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