Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Telly addicts

Related: Film discussion forum.

Original poster

Panorama Private ADHD clinics exposed

392 replies

Youdoyoubabe · 15/05/2023 20:46

Nothing surprising there really but good to highlight it on national television. Everyone has some characteristics of ADHD.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
autienotnaughtym · 15/05/2023 21:53

Youdoyoubabe · 15/05/2023 20:46

Nothing surprising there really but good to highlight it on national television. Everyone has some characteristics of ADHD.

Yes a lot of people do have characteristics. Just like people have characteristics of autism or ocd. The difference is the impact on the person's like. If they are unable to thrive without additional measures in place that's where a diagnosis comes in. I haven't seen the documentary but what is a scandal is a 4 year wait list on NHS and underfunded schools . Btw some NHS trusts are paying private companies to do assessments to get their wait lists down. They then endorse the assessment diagnosis.

ArcticSkewer · 15/05/2023 21:55

Loria · 15/05/2023 21:52

If we had a working healthcare system there wouldn't be such demand for services that people would pay thousands to charlatans.

What the fuck are people supposed to do when waiting lists are literally years long?

This is really the crux of it.

You absolutely can't blame anyone for looking for solutions and help where they can find them. Cahms is a disgrace, not through their own fault, all mental health seriously underfunded, just at a point where it is needed more than ever.

It's not even talked about by politicians.

WesternEasterner · 15/05/2023 21:57

@GCWorkNightmare I hope it goes well for your DD. Please don't let this documentary or discussion put you off using medication for your DD. It has completely changed my DS's life. There is copious research indicating that medicated children have better outcomes because ADHD can have such a huge impact on other mental health conditions.

Obviously there are lots of other routes for support and ADHD coaching etc can help but I cannot fully verbalize the huge impact that medication has had for my son.

Our private appt was with a paediatrician and in person. It didn't take 3 hours but it took 90 mins and I imagine 90 mins of her time going through the forms we had filled in and school had filled in. We have full faith in our private diagnosis as school staff and external school staff all also raised concerns. It followed all the NICE guidelines.

GozerTheGozerian · 15/05/2023 21:57

Instead of being a fad, perhaps it’s because the body of evidence is growing all the time and expanding to encompass people who don’t fit the hyperactive small boy model which most traditional research was based on? (Eg the biggest growth in diagnosis is middle aged women as the impact of hormones and menopause becomes clearer).

and awareness is growing so more people now understand what ADHD is and how debilitating and it doesn’t always fit the stereotype?

and that there is a strong genetic component to many neurodiverse conditions so chances are if it’s in your family more than one person has it so maybe the effects are normalised and you don’t spot them?

you know - instead of people jumping through expensive hoops to be diagnosed with a debilitating and stigmatised condition which may well lead to discrimination and marginalisation when they don’t actually have it?

just a thought

quietheart · 15/05/2023 21:58

bellac11 · 15/05/2023 21:46

Absolutely. I cant wait for the day when there is a neurological test in the brain for ND disorders. There is so much overlap between trauma/attachment disorder behaviour and ND presentation

Far more professionals are talking about this now

Show quote history

I work in this area and you are so right, the amount of parents who are seeking a ND diagnosis when the real problem is social, emotional or environmental is staggering. The amount of professionals who are onboard with this is concerning. It’s a total disservice to the genuine ND people.

lightinthebox · 15/05/2023 21:58

What a pointless program.

Investigating 'bad' private clinics that are providing an essential service for those who need it.

A better investigation would be the deliberate underfunding of CAMHS so people wait years for an assessment, causing stress to themselves and family.

Releasing a program that causes further stigma and nastiness towards those taking necessary medication is shameful.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 15/05/2023 22:00

On the one hand, most of the psychiatrists at these private clinics also work with the NHS (so are well aware of the NICE guidelines for diagnosis), and I know a fair few people who were not diagnosed for either autism or ADHD through private clinics, despite having paid their money. So they don't just diagnose everyone.

Is that true of this type of clinic, @beeskipa ? It's definitely true of traditional private healthcare. but I'm not sure it is true of these single diagnosis one-stop clinics. I'm an HCP and I have never met anyone who went to one of these clinics and was not diagnosed with ADHD whereas, when people go to conventional mental health services (private or NHS), they often go thinking they have one diagnosis, only to be told they actually have something different.

Obviously I'm only one HCP, so only have anecdotal data, but I'd be interested to know what these clinics' rate of not diagnosing ADHD is, and how that compares to NHS/conventional private services that see a similar demographic.

ArcticSkewer · 15/05/2023 22:00

GozerTheGozerian · 15/05/2023 21:57

Instead of being a fad, perhaps it’s because the body of evidence is growing all the time and expanding to encompass people who don’t fit the hyperactive small boy model which most traditional research was based on? (Eg the biggest growth in diagnosis is middle aged women as the impact of hormones and menopause becomes clearer).

and awareness is growing so more people now understand what ADHD is and how debilitating and it doesn’t always fit the stereotype?

and that there is a strong genetic component to many neurodiverse conditions so chances are if it’s in your family more than one person has it so maybe the effects are normalised and you don’t spot them?

you know - instead of people jumping through expensive hoops to be diagnosed with a debilitating and stigmatised condition which may well lead to discrimination and marginalisation when they don’t actually have it?

just a thought

So why then, as per this documentary, are the private clinics diagnosing it while the nhs ones are not?

That's the issue here.

WesternEasterner · 15/05/2023 22:02

Loria · 15/05/2023 21:52

If we had a working healthcare system there wouldn't be such demand for services that people would pay thousands to charlatans.

What the fuck are people supposed to do when waiting lists are literally years long?

Yep. This is it. We had no choice. A son at the point of exclusion from school. We couldn't wait 3 years. He would have ended up with huge mental health problems and self esteem at rock bottom. He'd have had 3 miserable years of failing. We couldn't stand by and let that happen. We couldn't.

Original poster
Youdoyoubabe · 15/05/2023 22:02

bugbossausa · 15/05/2023 21:40

Op, I assume you are neurotypical? I'm also wondering about your motive for posting this? There's a lot of misinformation in what you've written. All people have characteristics of ADHD but it's when these symptoms are so severe they impact your day to day life and mental health and make you feel unable to function in a world that isn't designed for you. The reason people turn to private clinics is that NHS waiting lists are so long and many people on these lists will be waiting for years. Saying that medication works for anyone regardless of whether they have ADHD or not is nonsense. If you don't have it the meds will make you feel wired and anxious.

Why are you assuming I am neurotypical?

My motives are discussing a TV show about ADHD diagnoses.

Most people do have characteristics of ADHD.

People do take ADHD medication to assist with concentration.

Just because you don’t like the idea of something doesn’t mean it isn’t true or doesn’t happen.

OP posts:
GozerTheGozerian · 15/05/2023 22:03

Well it might be relevant that the NHS doctor knew he was a journalist conducting an investigative process so hardly a level playing field.

I am not defending these clinics or saying they are doing the right thing, I was responding to the point someone made about it being a fad and am sick of the gaslighting of people with serious medical conditions that it’s not that bad and everyone has a bit of ADHD

tallcypowder · 15/05/2023 22:03

GozerTheGozerian · 15/05/2023 21:10

NHS waiting lists are years long, there is huge stigma about neurodiversity still and minimising of people’s symptoms and the impact on their lives. This programme is really not going to help if it doesn’t show a balanced view of the shitshow of adult ADHD support in the NHS.

And no, ADHD meds don’t increase concentration for everyone. They can be either ineffective or downright harmful if given to people without ADHD.

I agree while I think its right to highlight clinics that don't follow NICE.

It gives ignorant people the chance to say ' everyone is ADHD' it's the latest fad etc.

Takes away the struggles of those suffering.

ArcticSkewer · 15/05/2023 22:03

quietheart · 15/05/2023 21:58

I work in this area and you are so right, the amount of parents who are seeking a ND diagnosis when the real problem is social, emotional or environmental is staggering. The amount of professionals who are onboard with this is concerning. It’s a total disservice to the genuine ND people.

Show quote history

It's a disservice to everyone.

Imagine you have a child with attachment issues, or are an adult with another mental health condition, but you go to a private adhd clinic and that's all they diagnose so that's what you are going to get, and it's pretty much a guarantee that once you pay that's what they will tell you.

How is that helpful, if you actually need a completely different treatment or approach?

WesternEasterner · 15/05/2023 22:05

@ArcticSkewer they sought the opinion of one NHS Dr. One. Said Dr knew what the film was supposed to be about. Bias already.

They needed to seek more opinions from the NHS and not inform them of what was going on.

That's just for a start.

Original poster
Youdoyoubabe · 15/05/2023 22:05

Indeed very good point.

OP posts:
MightyEagle · 15/05/2023 22:06

TheDalaiShawarma · 15/05/2023 21:17

Thank you.

The “we all have some symptoms of ADHD” comments are beyond ignorant. We all feel sad sometimes, that’s not the same as having clinical depression. We all have upset stomachs sometimes, that’s not the same as someone battling chronic stomach issues.

People with ADHD have all of the symptoms, all of the time. From the moment they wake up, until the moment they fall asleep. It’s exhausting and debilitating.

This documentary is only going to solidify ableist and discriminatory beliefs. It’s going to cause so much damage.

Show quote history

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick. This is exactly the point the reporter is trying to make. Having ADHD is NOT the same as having some "ADHD traits", and yet some clinics are diagnosing using very brief, online assessments, which don't accurately distinguish between the two.

And as you say, the medication is NOT risk free. If you genuinely have ADHD then the benefits might outweigh the risks. If you DON'T have ADHD then you should not be taking these drugs. That's also the point that the programme is making. People who do not meet the threshold for an ADHD diagnosis are being prescribed potentially harmful medication.

ArcticSkewer · 15/05/2023 22:07

Youdoyoubabe · 15/05/2023 22:02

Why are you assuming I am neurotypical?

My motives are discussing a TV show about ADHD diagnoses.

Most people do have characteristics of ADHD.

People do take ADHD medication to assist with concentration.

Just because you don’t like the idea of something doesn’t mean it isn’t true or doesn’t happen.

Show quote history

It's well known isn't it that uni students take adhd meds thinking it will boost their attentiveness and give them an advantage? Apparently not on mn.

Been huge numbers of articles about it over the last decade.

Panorama isn't looking at it from that angle though - I don't think those people bother paying for the diagnosis, they just buy the meds black market

TheDalaiShawarma · 15/05/2023 22:09

I am failing to believe that the reporter gave the exact same answers to the diagnostic questions in all 4 assessments. I would guarantee he played down or exaggerated symptoms depending on the assessment in order to support his bias.

Original poster
Youdoyoubabe · 15/05/2023 22:09

musicalold · 15/05/2023 21:45

@Spidey66 medication can be life changing for children with ADHD. It can be the difference between success and failure in school, university, in a career. Many other lifelong conditions require powerful medication to keep them under control. Lifelong steroids for example. Or antipsychotics. Is it because ADHD meds are "basically speed" that they are different, or because you don't think most warrant a diagnosis?
I haven't seen the program and I shan't be watching it. We are at the start of a journey that is very like to involve a private ADHD clinic because i don't want to wait until after my DC has flunked out of school to find out if there is a reason for their struggles and therefore treatment strategies and support. I don't need a BBC programme reinforcing beliefs that it's a fad created by a generation that just aren't very resilient.

The programme is not doing those things. You could find it helpful if you are likely to use a private clinic. Remember firstly they are commercial enterprises.

OP posts:
ArcticSkewer · 15/05/2023 22:10

WesternEasterner · 15/05/2023 22:05

@ArcticSkewer they sought the opinion of one NHS Dr. One. Said Dr knew what the film was supposed to be about. Bias already.

They needed to seek more opinions from the NHS and not inform them of what was going on.

That's just for a start.

Fair point. They could have asked pretty much anyone in the nhs though, apart of course from those who sold their souls by working in these clinics.

It's an extremely well known issue.

Good to see it getting sunlight beyond the world of medics and psychologists.

BertieBotts · 15/05/2023 22:11

Oh well this thread is going to hijack my whole day tomorrow, and I wanted to get some jobs done Sad

Original poster
Youdoyoubabe · 15/05/2023 22:16

lightinthebox · 15/05/2023 21:58

What a pointless program.

Investigating 'bad' private clinics that are providing an essential service for those who need it.

A better investigation would be the deliberate underfunding of CAMHS so people wait years for an assessment, causing stress to themselves and family.

Releasing a program that causes further stigma and nastiness towards those taking necessary medication is shameful.

What a strange view. Do you really think such investigative journalism is pointless?

Granted there are plenty of other areas of life and specifically healthcare to investigate but I thought this was interesting and highlighted potential sharp practices in this area of medical business.

I find the economics of medicine fascinating, not pointless.

OP posts:
OP posts:
Freezylap · 15/05/2023 22:19

ANYONE who takes ADHD meds will find their ability to concentrate on tasks is enhanced. I know plenty of people (non-diagnosed either professionally or via self diagnosis) who take it occasionally when they have to get a report done for work and it’s deadline day, for example. Friends say it allows them to focus more and for longer and be really productive.

I think the real issue is that the kind of work a lot of people do is fundamentally unsuited to the human condition. We are not meant to be able to focus and concentrate on details for long periods of time. The people who can are the outliers but they are the ones who get rewarded in a society that values performance in exams.