Dragons Den: Touker Suleyman

[ABoyCalledBasil]

I start by saying that I don't really like Touker Suleyman so this isn't coming from a place of fandom - but it seems to me that his treatment by the other Dragons is coming very close to bullying. It seemed v much that way to me tonight - Jones has always picked on him and now the young tech guy is joining in too.

Apparently psychologists say that a common way for any group (work or social) to bond is to join together against a joint "enemy" - in other words find someone in common to slag off. It's why in any social group there is a 'weakest link' and if they leave, the next weakest one becomes the least popular. It's also why in work groups often everyone slags off the manager and actors slag off the director.

Seemed to me the young one was joining in with that as there is a precedent of picking on Touker as the least popular.

Like I said, I don't really warm to him but it seems more and more prevelant and I don't like seeing bullying or something moving towards bullying presented as entertainment or endorsed.

We’ve been remarking on how rude Steven is to TS this whole series. I assumed it is deliberate to create “drama” as he is all about increasing traffic. If not then it is just plain vanilla
bullying and not nice.

They're all pretty arrogant, but I suppose you need that sort of personality if you want to make a lot of money. I'd probably choose Deborah if I were seeking a Dragon. She has the most common sense of all of them.

Young tech guy = Steven.

I've also noticed that he and Peter Jones always do smirks whenever he speaks. But like others have said it could be down to editing. I also find Touker the most patronising dragon to those pitching.

I thought the coloured mouldable plastic stuff looked like Form Cards. In fact DP reminded me that I bought him some years ago following a recommendation on MN! (And apparently he used them to fix one of his motorbikes for long enough to get it to a proper workshop.)

It's quite ironic @ABoyCalledBasil that you are referring to Steven Bartlett as 'the young tech guy' and not even bothering to find out his name. That's the exact problem he has with Touker. He has been dismissed so many times as 'what do you know, you're just a baby' attitude from Touker that it's no wonder they are now coming to loggerheads.

In one episode Touker made a very greedy counter offer to an entrepreneur and you could see Steven thought it was out of order. This has been brewing all season. If I was in the den, Deborah would be my first choice followed by 'that young tech guy'. Patronising Touker would be last. Yes sometimes he is endearing but most of the time he's uncalled for scathing and rude.

I really don’t enjoy DD any more. I always thought Touker was a Betamax version of Theo Paphtis. Steven Bartlett has recently had his arse handed to him on a plate in the broadsheets following revelations about his actual (not imagined) involvement in the sale of a £600m company which turned out not to be a £600m company he was actually involved with... So it is quite ironic he’s pulling apart the wannabes lack of clarity over their own figures. For that reason, I’m afraid I’m out.

Touker seems extraordinarily grumpy in this series and some of the others quite snippy in return, but I think they’ve just been asked to up the Drama a bit and the show is edited accordingly. There’s nothing in it for him if he’s genuinely being bullied by the others, so I doubt he’d put up with it.
I agree that the overall impression is of an older businessman being disparaged by a younger one, which doesn’t make it particularly enjoyable to watch.
I’d pitch to Sara Davies, she’s great.

Whenever I watch Touker interact with the entrepreneurs, I think "what a dick."

Two Touker to Steven quotes when Steven was new to the show:

'What do you know about business?'
'Never disagree with me because I've got a lot more experience than you've got.'

I always thought Touker was a Betamax version of Theo Paphtis.

Yes! He's like a Theo who has let himself go.

I always thought Touker was a Betamax version of Theo Paphtis.

@Netaporter I want to show my appreciation for this stunning piece of descriptive writing! This is fabulous, spot on and very very funny.

'What do you know about business?'

This is rude but he's absolutely right and I'd infer here he's really using the word business in the sense of productivity. Social media marketing isn't the same as most of real world business; it's possible to have great success fast by gorilla tactics. That mouldable glue thing really shows his inexperience investing in it without asking at all about competitor products or even a basic awareness of the market. It's not my field and I'm not a particularly DIY person but even I know about and have used Sugru. It may not make a difference but it is very beginner to not even investigate it or take it into account.

Alot of the time I think people go on Dragon's Den just for the advertising whether they get an investment or not, its publicity that you couldn't buy without squzillions £$

What struck me about the mouldable stuff - they said it would re-soften if heated again - but they showed it being used to repair a spoon, something that would regularly be immersed in hot water.

I fancy Touker (yes, you did read that correctly) so I'm biased.

But Peter Jones is a complete nob-end.

It will be filmed over several days or weeks, but they wear the same outfits all the time so that the producers can mix up the pitches in the edited programmes for maximum entertainment. The Dragons will have duplicates of the same outfit.

In last year's series, Deborah had sustained an injury - I think it was a broken wrist - and had to change her outfit temporarily, wearing an obvious wrist bandage. There was also a period where Peter Jones was self-isolating and Theo came back to replace him, and they did seem to maintain continuity for those episodes - you didn't see Deborah's bandage appearing and disappearing, or Theo changing into Peter.

My take on it is that all the Dragons are way nicer and kinder to the people presenting than ever they used to be in the early days. I honestly think between themselves it is just banter.

I think nowadays the contestants are more savvy so there are fewer completely ludicrous ideas to be torn to shreds.

Hard agree! He is abit old fashioned maybe but he knows his stuff in the business he is in.
They can all be rude and dismissive and disrespectful to him. Deborah and the tech. CEO guy ( forgotten his name) especially. Why?
Sarah is most respectful and has stood up for him a couple of times.

Wasn’t there some controversy recently over Steven Bartlett and his business. Something about him claiming to have sold a multi million pound business but it actually didn’t achieve that until after he’d sold it?

DH and I take bets on how many times he’ll say TikTok

@SmugglersHaunt do we need to set up an intervention for you?! 😂

At the end of the day they are all as bad as each other but it makes good telly that I still enjoy. And as soon as you hear a pitch you know exactly which dragon would suit the entrepreneur best.

They do all have very different criteria for what is 'investable'.

Steven - will it go viral on social media?
Sara - will it sell on shopping TV or is it something I personally really love?
Deborah - is it eco-friendly and sustainable?
Touker - do I personally have the right infrastructure and connections to get this to market?
Peter - are the branding and financials spot on and do I want to invest in this person as an individual?

@SmugglersHaunt

I can't believe any one fancies Touker but this is a refreshing illustration of the principle that for every pot their is a lid. There is hope for us all that someone out there will fancy us!!

Only Sugru isn't as great as the advertising might suggest! Sorry, but we've had Sugru in this house for many years. Watch the expiry date! I am also not sure it is any better than Blutac. I'll watch the episode with interest.

And yes I am a couple of shows behind but the snippiness seems a lot more. But I have watched DD since the start so perhaps I am feeling I have seen it all before!

This is why I am sceptical of SB who can often ask very good questions, but yes the number of tik-tok views really can't be real business. But to be fair to all the Dragons I am closer in age to most of them than SB/SD and I am an accountant and very good employee, not entrepreneur. So what do I know. I do also agree with you that I think now this show has become more about the companies getting advertising rather than giving away any part of their business. A local firm to me (events organiser) gained great local publicity. I am not sure how Dragon involvement would have improved their local cash flow. They are not looking to expand nationally or internationally.