Jimmy Saville - Netflix

[Vanderpump]

How the hell did this man get away with it?

I watched this today - heartbreaking to hear the stories.

He was already famous when I was young but I hated watching him on TV & never watched Jim'll Fix it as he properly gave me the creeps. Couldn't stand the man as he gave off such mean vibes. Wasn't surprised at all when the truth came out but still desperately sad to hear the stories. The BBC really should hang their heads in shame & actually the institution itself should be shut down altogether. It's toxic.

@JoyLurking9to5

Esther Ranson knew what he was like. He tried to get a position on Childline and she did everything to make it impossible.

Really? I thought she denied all knowledge? Wasn't her husband Head of the BBC or at a high level when this was going on? I've only watched the first fifteen mins so maybe it's covered in the documentary.

In all of the interview clips he literally puts it out there, every time, about liking young women. He often said 17 but I think he just kept that 'safe' number in his head. I can't imagine any woman finding him attractive, regardless of his status. It's a grim watch, I don't think I can do part 2 for a bit.

Part 2 is quite graphic @TitsInAbsentia & had me in floods of tears - brave survivors speaking the truth.

I genuinely don't understand how it happened for so long. Why was it OK for the people who could have done something to turn a blind eye? It's so obvious. He was telling people who he was, and nobody listened... or they picked their careers over the safety of the victims. Despicable

It was a different time, creepy old men were tolerated as "odd" and I think there was a genuine lack of understanding that some men abused children. I know my mum was utterly shocked when child abuse became talked about. To her it was inconceivable that men would sexually abuse children. We know much more today.

In the series they mentioned a police task force being set up in 1994...that's recent.

This rings a bell but I can't remember who. Is it the obvious smug one?

Smug whose been on holiday ?

I dont think this doc said anything we didnt know all ready. He was a disgusting pervert who got away with doing terrible things but I dont think the doc brought up anything new except Selina Scott.

The police and the BBC have acted disgustingly in this.

To think Saville got to the end of his life knowing he got away with it all.

Fucking gross.

I've only watched the first one so far, it's a very intense watch isn't it. I remember when it all came out and a colleague of mine defending him and saying the survivors were gold diggers and attention seekers! I was quite stunned by her reaction because I remember thinking there wasn't something right about him.

It's interesting how all these celebrities who are predators are so blatant. Thinking about him joking about court cases, Bill Cosby joking about magic pills, people knew about Harvey Weinstein for decades too. Larry Nassar would abuse girls in front of their parents and tell them it was therapy.

I think this is a good demonstration of how predators groom "gatekeepers" before they start on their victims. Very enlightening.

Has there been a proper investigation into the actions of the police (especially West Yorkshire) and the BBC regarding their actions or inaction?

I felt that was the big unanswered question at the end of this documentary. People in power who could have stopped JS.

One thing that struck me about the documentary is how often the reality, even by people who had his number, was toned down. The phrase "liked little girls" was used over and over. This is a euphamism allowing the person saying it not to have to confront the cruetly involved. He didn't like little girls at all. He was a child abuser and rapist and by using a more gentle way of describing him, it allowed everyone around him to minimise the rumours and the harm they represented.

I don't think that was unique to Savile - I think that phrase and those like it, were used a lot at the time to the same effect for others.

I could be wrong, but I think @ZaraSizeMedium means the ever present one from the cupboard of brooms....

Back on Savile, I think the documentary was well made but (particularly the second part) quite harrowing. Really important that this isn't forgotten but yes this evil is still going on.

The second part was devastating to watch - that lady who continues to blame herself. It really wasn't her fault

The Selina Scott bit was interesting.
The replaying of 'the court case is on Thursday' compilation was horrible. As was the clip of that poor young girl on TOTP who lurched away from him squealing, but he clearly still wasn't stopping, even on camera
I was really taken aback by the voices of the public saying why dig it up. I remember it happening at the time, but it's more striking in retrospect.
And as for a child abuse unit only being set up in 1994 - I was staggered by that.

You wonder how it happened when, off the top of my head, the following have happened in the last couple of years in plain view:

• Asda issued materials to primary schools using the slogan “love has no age” and promoting a book which normalises child sexual abuse
• a local library hired a performer wearing a dildo to “entertain” children
• lots of local libraries hire drag queens whose main acts have adult content which is easily searchable online, let them wear clothes that reveal their genitals and in one case, worse a skirt with no underwear and flashed the children
• lobbying groups are arguing that children have capacity to consent to life changing medical procedures, which coincidentally leave them with pre pubescent bodies,
• lobbying groups have enabled adult males to get access to girls’ changing and sleeping areas.
• prominent individuals say that little girls are rude if they stare at adult men’s genitals when those adult males are naked in their changing rooms.

Nothing is better, it’s still happening in plain sight and women who object are still monstered, bullied and silenced.

It's quite enlightening, esp on this new documentary (which is the best so far IMO) how it was the female journalists or presenters that seemed to get the measure of him at the time while most of the men seemed oblivious or laughed them off. with the exception of Selina Scott. Of course she says now it was all an act, but she was practically throwing herself at him on camera. Cringeworthy.

Agree, HermioneWeasley was it LangCleg who said, "When you create a group of people who are beyond questioning, you create a safeguarding failure" or words to that effect? JS became beyond questioning.

The victims/survivors in the 2nd episode were incredibly brave.

This is a moving article about Liz Mackean, a journalist who worked with Merion Jones and her part in exposing him. She paid the price by being sidelined and leaving the BBC. (She also died young.)

Excerpt:

Over the next year I would watch MacKean fight for the Savile story, see how her work went unrecognised, how she was ignored and sidelined at the BBC, and how profoundly that affected her.

“She’d always struck me as a very ordinary journalist,” a former senior news executive told me. “She wasn’t ambitious or sharp-elbowed. She didn’t fill the screen.” I put it to him that MacKean’s talents for listening to sources were one of the qualities that made her extraordinary. He considered this for a moment and said: “Listening wasn’t a quality we gave much credit to back then. It should have been.”

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/nov/02/jimmy-savile-bbc-journalists-risked-jobs-reveal-truth

@AlternativePerspective

It's quite enlightening, esp on this new documentary (which is the best so far IMO) how it was the female journalists or presenters that seemed to get the measure of him at the time while most of the men seemed oblivious or laughed them off. with the exception of Selina Scott. Of course she says now it was all an act, but she was practically throwing herself at him on camera. Cringeworthy.

I thought Selina looked deeply uncomfortable in those clips.

I thought this was a clever documentary in its structure with part one of how he built himself as part of the establishment and part two dealing with what he then did. The vehicle of making media people watch their footage back and focussing on them was fascinating but uncomfortable.

My heart broke for Sam Brown. She was so articulate and brave to appear in this. I just thought she was amazing but so painful to listen to what she went through and how it impacted her life.

There were some comments I think on another thread that made an important point though. The Netflix doc certainly implied this was a lone predator acting within a culture that allowed it to happen. Other documentaries and investigations have looked at other paedophiles and the networks that supported their abuse. Another thread linked to one on YouTube.

So very many people who knew something but didn't know what they knew. The people interviewed in the documentary, and the questions that journalists asked Saville directly at the time all point to an awareness that something is dreadfully wrong but not being able to pin down what. All those people who second-guessed themselves into silence and tried to put off their unease. Horrific.

@Gardeningcreature Rochdale and Rotherham. You mean the Asian grooming gangs?