Louise Woodward The Killer Nanny. did she do it?

[HeckinMiffed]

This was such a huge case when I was younger. Anyone else watching?
I always thought she didnt deliberately kill the baby.

@ancientgran

I wondered if she was on valium or something to calm her down as she seemed very flat most of the time. Regardless of that you can't convict someone of murder because you don't think they have responded correctly whatever correctly is.

That's highly likely. On antidepressants or beta blockers. I can't imagine the stress she would have been under. I would imagine she also had counselling and probably still does.

@Daimari

Not making anyone but me look bad? I’m not the one guffawing when being told of my friends loved ones dying

Vile comment. That isn’t going down as well I sad.

@Daimari

Oh I do agree with that *@ComtesseDeSpair* - just not sure that the world is filled with people howling with laughter when told of terrible happenings. I think nervous laughter is a thing, but where I seem to differ from the majority is that I think it can be controlled.

Please explain why you think it can be controlled.

It's a reaction that starts in the body, not the head...once it starts that often makes it worse as the person will get more stressed and nervous trying to stop the laughter.

If someone has a habit of doing it they can certainly try exercises to control their own bodies stress responses and so on, but without that then you can't simply take control of it!

It's like if someone has serious anxiety. Some people get therapy and manage to take control of the nervous system and lessen the response, but without the awareness, techniques and practice then people generally can't override what's going on in their body.

@chestnutSquash

What sort of person employs an unqualified teenager to look after their baby for extraordinarily long hours? Those parents were wealthy professionals and could well afford a qualified nanny. Au pairs are not supposed to work even full time hours. If those parents were not rich and upper class they would probably have been accused of neglect IMO.

That’s a very good point. All mums I knew who worked when we had babies had proper nannies.

@Daimari

That’s the nature of discussions though Sparkling.

Jane, sorry but no. There’s times when you just have to show some self control. I’m a bit shocked anybody is saying that it’s OK because oh well, he or she has a nervous laugh and can’t help chuckling away when they discover a baby died

If it’s a nervous laugh you can’t control it. I don’t hear something horrible/stressful and think ‘it would be really fun and appropriate if I giggled about this.’ It’s the exact opposite. I know how inappropriate it is to giggle or laugh which is exactly why it happens.

Obviously nobody is choosing to do it. It’s like saying ‘why would you faint or throw up when you hear tragic or stressful news? Don’t you know that’s inappropriate and isn’t helpful?’

And anyway she wasn’t being tried for seeming guilty. Similarly to other high profile cases where (oddly usually women) are found ‘guilty’ by the public for simply being odd/not behaving as someone who’s never experienced what they have thinks they would behave in that situation.

Wasn't there some suggestion that the baby had old injuries before the au pair's time?

I was an AuPair with the same company as LW, I flew home on the flight that took her to USA. We got 5 days in NYC before joining our host families. 3 of those were in 'AuPair school' with extremely basic first aid training and other training scenarios. The girls who I was at AuPair school with had varying childcare experience from full on mothers help during school holidays or full time nanny (you could go to USA up to 23 years old) to watching their brother or sister for half hour a week. Some hardly spoke English, most were only there for the experience of living in USA. Most of us got good families where they stuck to the rules (use of car, $115 week 'pocket money', no more than 40 hours week work) others got horrible families where they were expected to be on call almost 24/7. You couldn't drink or party in USA until you were 21 so most of us faked our international driver's license to be able to go to clubs, other than that spare time was spent at the mall or movies....I totally get why LW saw rent so much if nothing else to do!
I don't believe she did it, I do believe she was used as a scapegoat. I also know the company she was out there with was absolutely bloody useless so she would have had hardly any help or support from them

in the US the word nanny means anyone who is looking after a child - it can cover anything from a one-time babysitter to a degree-qualified professional.

So, yes, in the US, the word nanny would be fine. They do use au-pair as well, but less often - it's a bit of a middle class wanky pretension.

I think even now, almost 25 years later, there’s still a disconnect between what an au pair is supposed to do (and what their motivations for au pairing are likely to be) and what some people expect. There are perpetual threads on MN where an OP is saying she’s e.g. a single parent and can’t afford a childminder for every day wraparound and school holiday childcare for her three DC aged 4, 6 and 8; and invariably she’ll be advised by several different au pairs to “get an au pair, you only need to pay them a bit of pocket money and give them time off once or twice a week to go to their English classes.”

Advised by several different posters that should say.

I was an AuPair with a different company but agree with everything @2anddone says. I had a great family and am still in touch with them over 30 years later, some of my friends were not so fortunate (though nothing as bad as what happened to LW).

Louise was not a nanny, it was sold to young people as an opportunity to live and work for a year in America, it was supposed to be light household and childcare duties. She should never have had sole charge of a toddler and baby. There is very little support from the agency when you’re out there, monthly meet ups (pizza parties or concerts) was pretty much it.

Maybe they sold the program to the parents differently (might ask my old host family). Whilst I feel desperately sorry for the parents, they should have known that a young, unqualified, inexperienced girl was not an appropriate person to care sole charge for their children.

@AppleJane

Wasn't there some suggestion that the baby had old injuries before the au pair's time?

Yes and why the the father, a pediatrician, hadn’t noticed them is very strange. It was literally his job to spot injuries and illnesses in children.

@EnjoyingTheSilence and let's face it the biggest selling point was the extra month to travel at the end of your working year! The agency LW and I was with was the same Halloween party, Christmas party and meet ups at Denny's was about it! I am still in touch with my host family I was their first au pair, they had 2 more after me and I think it's fair to say they came as a shock. I won't lie I was there for the experience of living in USA but also as I thought I might like to do a job in childcare....25 years later and I am a childminder with degree in Early Years.

@ComtesseDeSpair

I think even now, almost 25 years later, there’s still a disconnect between what an au pair is supposed to do (and what their motivations for au pairing are likely to be) and what some people expect. There are perpetual threads on MN where an OP is saying she’s e.g. a single parent and can’t afford a childminder for every day wraparound and school holiday childcare for her three DC aged 4, 6 and 8; and invariably she’ll be advised by several different au pairs to “get an au pair, you only need to pay them a bit of pocket money and give them time off once or twice a week to go to their English classes.”

This is what I was trying to get at in my post about people getting an aupair and expecting a nanny-housekeeper who is on call all day.

You do see it far too often on mumsnet with people suggesting an aupair to cover all day child care for low prices. It’s plain exploitation sometimes and as it’s often arranged casually there’s precious little help for the girls when they’ve reached a foreign country and realise they’re being exploited.

I read an interview with the chief medical prosecution witness recently and he said he doesn't stand by his evidence which convicted her. That they now realise shaken baby syndrome isn't a thing. But the baby had injuries didn't he? I need to watch this on catch up.

Laughter when in uncomfortable situations can also be a feature in neurodiversity, as can differences in tone and facial expression. So thats another potential explanation.

@lborgia Thank you for sharing your experience

I'm a nervous laugher and my ND brother is even worse. It's not "howling with laughter" if anything, it's a smile of disbelief, a small laugh and it's completely involuntary.

I don't have an opinion because I don't know what to think. I know how bloody hard two small children are to look after. I just don't see any benefit on brining this up again and the programme title is clearly sensationalist.

@ancientgran that would make sense! In that case completely reasonable. I took it literally to mean any phone calls from the house

[quote EssexLioness]@ancientgran that would make sense! In that case completely reasonable. I took it literally to mean any phone calls from the house[/quote]
It's funny isn't it, we heard exactly the same thing and came up with two completely different, and both possible, explanations. I don't suppose we will ever know who got it right but we have both seen it from another perspective which is good isn't it.

@Daimari

So when you are doing a minutes silence, or at a funeral, you chortle?

No, you don’t.

As a young person I always got horrible hysterical laughter at funerals that I had no control over. It happened at my grandfather's funeral, and I adored him. I often wonder if it was a safety thing in my brain, it put distance between me and the most overwhelming of emotions. It has stopped now but I would say it went on into my late 20s.

I think if you’d fallen about laughing at my mothers funeral I’d have preferred you not to attend tbh.

@Daimari you are taking all this very personally. It isn't about that.

I’m not really. I’m just not convinced that people do actually snort and splutter and giggle their way through funerals and the like.

I mean - imagine your friend tells you, crying, that her eight month old died. Nothing on this earth would make me think laughter was an appropriate response, no matter how involuntary it was. I think people are exaggerating.

@Daimari

I’m not really. I’m just not convinced that people do actually snort and splutter and giggle their way through funerals and the like.

I mean - imagine your friend tells you, crying, that her eight month old died. Nothing on this earth would make me think laughter was an appropriate response, no matter how involuntary it was. I think people are exaggerating.

I don't think people do snort and giggle through funerals ,a short giggle from shock is very different to rolling in the aisles , Louise wasent exactly finding the whole trial hysterically funny ,she looked very nervous.