Louise Woodward The Killer Nanny. did she do it?

[HeckinMiffed]

This was such a huge case when I was younger. Anyone else watching?
I always thought she didnt deliberately kill the baby.

@Daimari

Do people who burst out laughing when told of the deaths of others have no self control at all?

It's a nervous reaction so no.

So when you are doing a minutes silence, or at a funeral, you chortle?

No, you don’t.

@Daimari

So when you are doing a minutes silence, or at a funeral, you chortle?

No, you don’t.

Not comparable at all. Are you nervous during a minute's silence or a funeral? Are all eyes on you, and it all being televised? Her reaction was one of a nervous teen who couldn't quite believe what was being suggested.

I know of people who’ve got the giggles at a funeral and either had to sneak out or bury their face in a hanky so it looks like they’re crying. Very difficult to control.

I’m not talking about LW. I’m talking about the posters who apparently laugh when told of a death.

I have no idea about LWs ‘laugh’ but tbh I don’t think the guffawing through ‘nerves’ is quite as common as people insist it is. If I told someone my son had died and they laughed, I wouldn’t want anything further to do with that person.

That's your prerogative @Daimari but it's something uncontrollable for them, the same as people who shake with nerves.

Well, I hope none of your friends lose their babies then, if you really have no control over it.

Can you imagine telling someone you thought was a friend that your baby died and they laughed?

Surely you would know your friend and how they react to bad news?

I think all this laughing stuff about other people and bad news/funerals is a bit of a derail from the discussion TBH.

That’s the nature of discussions though Sparkling.

Jane, sorry but no. There’s times when you just have to show some self control. I’m a bit shocked anybody is saying that it’s OK because oh well, he or she has a nervous laugh and can’t help chuckling away when they discover a baby died

But even if we all agreed that her laughter was entirely inappropriate, that still doesn’t mean she killed a baby. Plenty of people behave inappropriately, but if doesn’t mean anything beyond that sometimes they behave inappropriately. It doesn’t matter why she laughed, even if it was because she thought it was genuinely really funny a baby was dead. That still doesn’t mean she was guilty of causing his death.

That’s the nature of discussions though Sparkling

I get that I just don't see what it has to do with LW, whether other people in completely different scenarios would laugh at things.
Nervous laugh is a thing though and not always appropriate.

Oh I do agree with that @ComtesseDeSpair - just not sure that the world is filled with people howling with laughter when told of terrible happenings. I think nervous laughter is a thing, but where I seem to differ from the majority is that I think it can be controlled.

@Daimari

That’s the nature of discussions though Sparkling.

Jane, sorry but no. There’s times when you just have to show some self control. I’m a bit shocked anybody is saying that it’s OK because oh well, he or she has a nervous laugh and can’t help chuckling away when they discover a baby died

Your comments totally underplay the effect the events leading up to the death on LW. She was a traumatised teen far away from home.

I was a few years younger than LW when my dad died. A guy, who would have been about LW age at the time consoled me and we cried together as his father had also died. Then he told me his dad had died 2 years prior. I laughed uncontrollably and couldn’t stop. Definitely not at him. He most certainly thought I was laughing at him and was deeply offended but I didn’t know that at the time. I was actually laughing at the futility of life and how I couldn’t imagine living feeling as I did for another 2 years. I was feeling desperately sorry for me and incredulous. LW was 19, little more than a child.

You simply cannot say she should have acted as x and not y. Trauma does not work this way, especially under these circumstances and with one so young.

@Daimari

So when you are doing a minutes silence, or at a funeral, you chortle?

No, you don’t.

Some people do, in my experience. My mother is a terrible 'nervous laugher' at all kinds of solemn and sad occasions, including my grandfather's funeral, at a silent, prayerful interval at a family christening, or when someone has been hurt -- it's incredibly annoying, and I imagine a stranger would think she was quite mad/had hated my granddad/was a sadist or a sociopath.

She's a timid, socially-awkward person, and I believe it's more common in that kind of personality.

If you’d done that to me when I told you about my dads death, I would have walked out and we would have no longer been friends, @Mummyoflittledragon

But point taken re socially awkward personality, @Frenchfurze

There’s times when you just have to show some self control
That's the thing though, it's outside their control. I shake really badly when I'm nervous and someone telling me to have some self-control wouldn't make me be able to stop.

@Thethreecs
It doesn't seem like that was an official statement.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/118708.stm

"nervous laughter", like "freezing", is just another variation on "fight or flight". It can be controlled to an extent in every day interactions, but under extreme stress the natural impulse is much harder to contain. Most people will have a tendency to one of these things (I normally freeze) and it is really not possible to infer guilt or innocence from a slip-second reaction.

I agree if we're going by how she acted she did seem off and like she was guilty, but I never ever judge based on that because as others have said there are reasons why people can act like that.

The mother also acted odd and didn't come across as very genuine to me and I reckon people would have been convinced of her guilt had she been on trial too..so you can't simply go by demeanour.

@Daimari

If you’d done that to me when I told you about my dads death, I would have walked out and we would have no longer been friends, *@Mummyoflittledragon*

But point taken re socially awkward personality, @Frenchfurze

Yeah....you've said that a few times . You've made your point and I'm not sure it's making anyone but you look bad.

I knew someone who used to do the nervous laughter! It was awful. She did have to learn to control it, but wasn't able to as a teenager. It's quite common. I also know someone who laughs at aggression which is very unfortunate and clearly not voluntary! It's got him punched in the face before which is not what he wanted obviously

Not making anyone but me look bad? I’m not the one guffawing when being told of my friends loved ones dying

I remember once as a teen I was out with friends and a pigeon was run over by a car in front of us. It was gruesome, we couldn't avoid seeing it and we were all horrified. My horror and shock came out as an odd, unstoppable laugh. I have no idea why and to this day I don't understand it. FWIW I am shy and socially awkward I guess...

@user1481840227

I agree if we're going by how she acted she did seem off and like she was guilty, but I never ever judge based on that because as others have said there are reasons why people can act like that.

The mother also acted odd and didn't come across as very genuine to me and I reckon people would have been convinced of her guilt had she been on trial too..so you can't simply go by demeanour.

My husband is a retired police officer. He has dealt with all sorts, murders, IRA bombings, rapes, fatal accidents, the list goes on. When our 2 year old got hold of a bottle of weed killer I grabbed her and the car keys for a dash to A&E. What did my cool, calm, cope with anything husband do? He got the the rest of the weed killer and said if she was dying he was going with her. Me who is the panicker told him to get a grip and get in the car while rolling my eyes.

People do definitely act weird/out of character in stressful situations.

I wondered if she was on valium or something to calm her down as she seemed very flat most of the time. Regardless of that you can't convict someone of murder because you don't think they have responded correctly whatever correctly is.