Louise Woodward The Killer Nanny. did she do it?

[HeckinMiffed]

This was such a huge case when I was younger. Anyone else watching?
I always thought she didnt deliberately kill the baby.

Yes, it may well be the culture but my own 18 year old would not be able for a baby, a toddler, disapproving employers, restricted communication, low pay, long hours.... she just wouldnt be able for it.

I get they provably had debts but they also hadca lovely house in a lovely area and two cars. What they scrimped on was childcare.

If LW had been sentenced say 5 years if tge charge was manslaughter, the parents should have been on trial too and shared the sentence.

When i first left my x with a one year old and a 4 year old i was on benefitscand felt criticism for not working. I didnt earn enough to pay for childcare. That was not a great stage of my life but i accepted it. At 36 i found my own two chikdren very very challenging and wouldnt have expected an 18 year old with no love or connection to us to find it easy.

I think lw was involved in his older injury but my god his parents held themselves up as though they had no part in this tragedy.

The problem with this sort of set up is that it is a massively responsible job and not valued as such.

I think she hit his head on something hard. I don't think she shook him. On the ITV documentary (it's on the ITV hub) the autopsy doctor was interviewed and that's what he said.

@GruffaloSolja

The American legal system is a farce, or at least it was back then. This whole trial was a performance. It was never about getting justice for Matthew. It was all about who could put on the best show. Evidence and facts meant nothing in this case. Several times throughout the documentary it was mentioned how well Louise had been coached. And that sums it up perfectly in my mind, that anyone can be trained on how to wipe their face in the correct way to make the tears look genuine. How to give the right answers and to admit to just enough ambiguous guilt to cause doubt and confusion.

And the way the people in the pub where cheering at the reduction in sentence. That woman was right - they were cheering like she'd won gold. But it wasn't the Olympics. It was the trial for the murder of an 8 month old baby boy.

The American childcare system seems to be a farce as well although I'm not sure mathsanxiety speaks for the whole country because it is a big country.

I'm not very patriotic, never felt like waving the union jack about or anything but I feel quite proud that using an au pair for 45 hrs a week to look after a baby and a young child isn't culturally normal here. I feel proud of the young mums you see posting on mumsnet about if they should go back to work or stay at home as good quality childcare will cost as much as they earn and they aren't even considering cheap childcare. As much as I hate our government for many many things I'm proud that they think good quality childcare is worth subsidising and 2 and 3 and 4 year olds get free hours.

So today I will wave my imaginary flag.

@lastchristmasigaveyoumyheart

I think she hit his head on something hard. I don't think she shook him. On the ITV documentary (it's on the ITV hub) the autopsy doctor was interviewed and that's what he said.

Did he say it was definitely LW that did this? I have watched that documentary but don’t think I can go through it again there were so many adverts on the ITV hub.

That is the reality of being an au pair. It is thankless, lonely and v poorly paid work. The sort of people who employ au pairs fancy themselves as somehow deserving of slave labour yet cannot actually afford appropriate employees, they are the worst kind of people to work for

I was cared for by au pairs as a school aged child. I hope they were happy, we were invited as a family to 2 of their weddings. I exchanged with one of thier cousins (we had 3 sisters in series from the same family). We met their parents and stayed with them in the summer, my parents recently went to a funeral for my au pair's mother.

My other (Swedish) au pair taught me to ice skate and took he to the zoo (her boyfriend was a zoo keeper !).

We did everything in our power as a family to give them a welcoming home.

@Neurodiversitydoctor

We did everything in our power as a family to give them a welcoming home.

I'm sure lots of au pairs have a great experience, I think going skating with a schoolage child is going to be very different to being in the house with a baby and young child for long days.

That's interesting @Neurodiversitydoctor sounds great. I wonder what the relationship between the Eappens and LW was prior to this? And prior to the phone calls and LW coming home late etc.

Was there any sort of friendship and socialising, or was it just an employer/employee relationship I wonder. Did she spend any downtime with the family, bonding with them?

@Sparklingbrook

That's interesting *@Neurodiversitydoctor* sounds great. I wonder what the relationship between the Eappens and LW was prior to this? And prior to the phone calls and LW coming home late etc.

Was there any sort of friendship and socialising, or was it just an employer/employee relationship I wonder. Did she spend any downtime with the family, bonding with them?

She was only there for ten weeks before Matthew died so I'm not sure how much of a relationship she could have had When I visited my friend who was aupairing ,I stayed in the family home ,the parents were welcoming and pleasent enough if somewhat remote ,my friend was caring for two school aged children though who were fairly independent.

This tragedy highlights how little we value childcare as a profession, despite our claims that our children are so precious to us. I’ve read so many MN posts complaining about the cost of babysitters- taking care of someone else’s child is a huge responsibility and ought to be compensated accordingly.

She was only there for ten weeks before Matthew died so I'm not sure how much of a relationship she could have had

Yes, only a couple of months, long enough though to get her settled. But I wonder if they took her out or showed her around to start with or whether it was straight into the childcare and they were gone?
This is the sort of thing I was hoping to glean from any documentary but there seems to be very little information regarding what life was like in that house.

We also loved cooking with them, thanks to my French au pairs I can do a mean mouse au chocolate and tarte tattine both in about 10 minutes. I also speak reasonable French and can ice skate. I have such happy memories it makes me sad to think they weren't enjoying it too.

@Neurodiversitydoctor

We also loved cooking with them, thanks to my French au pairs I can do a mean mouse au chocolate and tarte tattine both in about 10 minutes. I also speak reasonable French and can ice skate. I have such happy memories it makes me sad to think they weren't enjoying it too.

Oooh Tarte Tatin-very nice! It does sound like you had a very good set up and all benefited from the arrangement.

I realise this is a derail, just to say not all employers of au pairs are exploitative, it can work well.

@Neurodiversitydoctor

I realise this is a derail, just to say not all employers of au pairs are exploitative, it can work well.

Not a derail at all, I would imagine in a lot of cases it's a perfectly fine arrangement with give and take on both sides. The fact you have stayed in touch speaks volumes.

I think there was not enough evidence to convict her beyond reasonable doubt as there was some debate over whether this was an old injury plus it seems that shaken baby syndrome is controversial (I didn't know that back then).

However, I could imagine someone that young with that amount of responsibility snapping with two young children in her care for such long hours. I always thought the mother came across really poorly (can't put my finger on it but she had this eerily starring eyes), though the dad seemed normal enough. And yes to those who said they could have easily afforded a proper nanny.

I do wonder, though, if Louise didn't kill him, who did? Or maybe it was an accident that he'd had unsupervised?

Do we know it wasn't just the 3 x8h days the mum worked? That's not excessive surely, though hard work at the same time. She said that when they were home they were adoring parents. I'm very sure she'd have said it if there was any question they were short tempered, rough etc.

I wonder if he fell or something under Louise's care. She wouldn't have known that toddlers and babies need 24/7 supervision and going to the bathroom is even tricky plus she was doing this after some very late nights, too

@Neurodiversitydoctor

That is the reality of being an au pair. It is thankless, lonely and v poorly paid work. The sort of people who employ au pairs fancy themselves as somehow deserving of slave labour yet cannot actually afford appropriate employees, they are the worst kind of people to work for

I was cared for by au pairs as a school aged child. I hope they were happy, we were invited as a family to 2 of their weddings. I exchanged with one of thier cousins (we had 3 sisters in series from the same family). We met their parents and stayed with them in the summer, my parents recently went to a funeral for my au pair's mother.

My other (Swedish) au pair taught me to ice skate and took he to the zoo (her boyfriend was a zoo keeper !).

So a totally different situation in which the aupairs provided after school childcare to a school age child and did fun activities with her.

Absolutely incomparable to full time sole care of a toddler and small baby.

Of course some families do not exploit their aupairs - and it’s a fantastic experience to allow young people to travel and experience different cultures. It’s the system I have an issue with. It basically puts these young people in a position where they have to just hope they have a nice family who don’t exploit them or treat them like a full time nanny for aupair money.

I'm just watching an unrelated Youtube documentary on the murderer Gary Allen. And something that Emma Kenny has just said has really struck me, as it's something that could just as easily be applied to Louise Woodward's testimony in the dock. She said clever criminals will minimise their involvement in a crime, but not take responsibility for it. Louise admitted to shaking Matthew but not to killing him. And I still can't get over her laughing when she answered that question either.

@GruffaloSolja

I'm just watching an unrelated Youtube documentary on the murderer Gary Allen. And something that Emma Kenny has just said has really struck me, as it's something that could just as easily be applied to Louise Woodward's testimony in the dock. She said clever criminals will minimise their involvement in a crime, but not take responsibility for it. Louise admitted to shaking Matthew but not to killing him. And I still can't get over her laughing when she answered that question either.

Are you actually comparing a convicted double murderer with a warped grudge against women, particularly prostitutes, and a long record of violent assaults on women and aggressive behaviour as a child, to a teenage au pair convicted of involuntary manslaughter on evidence one of the leading expert witnesses at her trial now says was flawed?

I din't think the laughing was actually laughing. We discussed this upthread though.

He was 8m old (wasn't he?) so the idea of him having a fall doesn't stack up.