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Telly addicts

Louise Woodward The Killer Nanny. did she do it?

790 replies

HeckinMiffed · 09/01/2022 21:08

This was such a huge case when I was younger. Anyone else watching?
I always thought she didnt deliberately kill the baby.

OP posts:
Kanaloa · 12/01/2022 06:47

Obviously I’m not saying they in any way deserved what happened here by the way. But I still feel aupairs are too often exploited by those looking for childcare on the cheap and taking advantage of someone’s relative youth and lack of worldly experience.

x2boys · 12/01/2022 07:23

I don't think people are being malicious or feel the Eappens deserved what happened to them,I think people are just incredulous that two highly intelligent adults would do such little research,when looking for childcare for their extremely young children ,and continue to carry on with inadequate childcare even though they were unhappy with it
Wether this is the norm in the US or not .

2anddone · 12/01/2022 07:28

I always wonder how they managed childcare after/during the trial. Did they continue to use au pairs (they had another 2 children after the trial) or did they use an alternative form of childcare. I am assuming they both continued to work though maybe one of them didn't even though their debt must have been huge.

Sparklingbrook · 12/01/2022 07:56

@x2boys

I don't think people are being malicious or feel the Eappens deserved what happened to them,I think people are just incredulous that two highly intelligent adults would do such little research,when looking for childcare for their extremely young children ,and continue to carry on with inadequate childcare even though they were unhappy with it Wether this is the norm in the US or not .
Yes that’s where I am at. Failings all round, it was all very sad. As a parent I would have wanted to read references obtained by the agency. To think the agency didn’t even follow up references is shocking.
zafferana · 12/01/2022 08:11

@x2boys

I don't think people are being malicious or feel the Eappens deserved what happened to them,I think people are just incredulous that two highly intelligent adults would do such little research,when looking for childcare for their extremely young children ,and continue to carry on with inadequate childcare even though they were unhappy with it Wether this is the norm in the US or not .
Agreed. When LW proved herself to be such a disaster they should've fired her and found another solution straight away. I appreciate there weren't any great options out there, but that's the case for everyone who needs childcare. I pulled my DC out of three different nurseries, because IMO they were providing substandard care. No way would I allow my DC to be in an unsafe or uncaring environment, they came first.
Girliefriendlikespuppies · 12/01/2022 08:16

Just finished watching this last night.

Louise is my around my age and I was out in America a couple of years after this case doing Camp America. I think the pp who said there but for the Grace of god was right, doing camp America I was left in sole charge of 8 7-8 yos having had no childcare experience.

That said my gut feeling is something happened to Mathew due to poor supervision, maybe he fell and banged his head or something similar when LW was on the phone.

Neurodiversitydoctor · 12/01/2022 08:20

I don't think people are being malicious or feel the Eappens deserved what happened to them,I think people are just incredulous that two highly intelligent adults would do such little research,when looking for childcare for their extremely young children ,and continue to carry on with inadequate childcare even though they were unhappy with it
Wether this is the norm in the US or not

I can believe this, as a junior doctor with 2 very young children, it was incredibly difficult to find suitable childcare. We did have a qualified Nanny who we asked to work very long hours sometimes. I am not sure that it was always of the highest quality (actually I go further, sometimes I knew it wasn't, nothing terrible, but too long in the car, too much TV, delayed weaning from the bottle, delayed toliet training). I was in a terrible bind as I am sure were the Eapens as constant change of carers isn't great either and argualably children are usually better off at home in bed at 6:30 than being dragged out in the freezing darkness to start nursery at 7am so mummy can be on shift by 8am. I did what I could; paid for lots of clubs and activities to give the days some shape and to give the nanny a break, tried to give as much time off as possible when I wasn't working to compensate for the horribly long hours, hung on and hoped things would get easier (they did).

I was also a teenage babysitter, I have huge sympathy with all of them.

Gilmorehill · 12/01/2022 08:51

I think, on balance of evidence shown, she accidentally injured that poor baby. She didn’t seem suited to the role and was clearly not coping with it. It really wasn’t an ideal childcare arrangement.
The interesting story was the British lawyer who was done for drunk driving? Did she really give that interview?

Sparklingbrook · 12/01/2022 08:52

I think the whole thing with Elaine could have done with an hour programme if it’s own! What on earth was going on there?

x2boys · 12/01/2022 08:55

Yeah there was a lot left unsaid with Elaine ,I was left confused as to wether she thought LW was innocent or guilty .

Girliefriendlikespuppies · 12/01/2022 08:58

The interesting thing with the lawyer was her description of Louise's parents, she really hated them. The fact they sold their dd out for £40000 says a lot as well. It does seem weird they two different sources both said she had admitted to thinking Louise was guilty...

Sparklingbrook · 12/01/2022 09:06

@x2boys

Yeah there was a lot left unsaid with Elaine ,I was left confused as to wether she thought LW was innocent or guilty .
Me too. Also the programme seemed to portray her as some lonely old hoarder with cats everywhere. Then you get police guy cruising along in his boat near the end looking all satisfied with himself and his beliefs. 🤷‍♀️
DreamboatCharlie · 12/01/2022 09:22

Same with this. Hiring a person and paying them tiny amounts of money for full time sole care of a toddler and a baby might be the norm in America but that doesn’t make it acceptable just because it’s the done thing
I agree and it must have been a nightmare if she didn't have a car and couldn't take them out as I think someone else said in this thread. They didn't even want her talking on the phone for some adult company. How many days a week was she doing very long days of sole care?

Nononoah · 12/01/2022 09:23

Yes I think she was responsible for Matthews death.
I think that her lawyer could have been clearer but I think that she believes that Louise is innocent again now but I do think she said those things to the press.
Interesting that lw campaigner from her village doubts her innocence now. Think it shows her motivation for getting involved in the first place.

I always thought lw was responsible for Matthews death and this programme has not changed my mind.

Eeiliethya · 12/01/2022 09:51

The below is interesting if you'd like to read more about the science behind the brain injuries and the debate behind trauma or undiagnosed illness.

They are English cases, they are quite descriptive of injury so I'll ad a TW.

www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2005/1980.html

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 12/01/2022 10:33

@DreamboatCharlie

Same with this. Hiring a person and paying them tiny amounts of money for full time sole care of a toddler and a baby might be the norm in America but that doesn’t make it acceptable just because it’s the done thing I agree and it must have been a nightmare if she didn't have a car and couldn't take them out as I think someone else said in this thread. They didn't even want her talking on the phone for some adult company. How many days a week was she doing very long days of sole care?
Every day I think was said on the programme and parents took it in turns to come back every other night.
Mummyoflittledragon · 12/01/2022 10:54

@mathanxiety
In what way were the Eappens paying the going rate? Several of us have responded to your earlier assertions that LW was a nanny. She was an au pair, employed through an au pair agency and categorically not a nanny. This has been widely reported.

She was on au pair wages, employed on an au pair contract. She categorically was not a young person doing a stint in childcare before something else turns up. That would be agreed, unqualified ‘nanny’ wages.

She certainly should not have been looking after such young children solely for a pittance. The Eappens exploited her, the paediatrician father missed serious healed injuries and both preferred to continue employing LW than find suitable care even though they did not trust her.

I am sorry your ds and anyone in the US is racking up the most ridiculous debts. However, that does not give anyone the right to exploit others. The couple could have lived in a smaller house, delayed having children, cut their cloth better in any number of ways.

Quite frankly I couldn’t give a damn about their financial situation and am shocked at the continued excuses that these people were doing their best when clearly were not.

ancientgran · 12/01/2022 11:19

@mathanxiety

I get that they were young doctors, in a tough spot with childcare. But the answer really isn’t to hire and exploit an aupair. I would expect someone who needed a round the clock on call childcare provider (which is what you’d need to cover those bunking in the hospital 4am issues you mention) to hire a very well paid nanny with experience of baby care and used to/expecting odd hours.

It really annoys me that people think they can get a proxy parent/full time nanny for aupair money. It is just very unfair and exploitative. Nannies generally are well paid and will have an employment contract, aupairs are ‘helpers’ who are paid pocket money.

@Kanaloa
It's not so in the US.

Au pairs are a cultural exchange programme. You get students hoping to learn English, perhaps as part of degree requirements. They do some childcare, some housework, some cooking, depending on their preference and the needs of their host family.

Nannies are basically people who are doing a stint in childcare before something else turns up. I know one exception, a woman with a BA from a very respected university, in her early 40s now, who earns what a teacher with about five years experience would make. She lives with a family, goes with them on vacations, has her own suite in their mansion. No marriage, no kids of her own. It is a very, very odd career choice.

There simply are not Norland standard nannies going a begging with experience, willingness to live in, etc in the US. Not for the sort of money young doctors make. You might find them in Hollywood or some parts of NYC.

I had a friend who did a NNEB course straight from school, 2 year course to qualify as a nursery nurse, she finished college on a Friday and flew to America the following day and was a nanny for 2 years with a family with 2 young children.

There were alternatives. She wasn't in Hollywood or NYC. These people wanted childcare on the cheap and you get what you pay for. They could have employed someone like my friend, not an aupair, not a Norland nanny.

The Eappens did not prioritise their children and the fact is they chose their careers, they chose when to have children. If they were a couple of teenagers on minimum wage using cheap childcare they would get much more vitriol.

Gilmorehill · 12/01/2022 11:30

The footage of the villagers cheering when the appeal verdict was announced was disgusting. A young baby had died. There was no respect to the family or his memory.

x2boys · 12/01/2022 12:12

@Gilmorehill

The footage of the villagers cheering when the appeal verdict was announced was disgusting. A young baby had died. There was no respect to the family or his memory.
Yes that looked awful ,it certainly shouldn't have been shown on TV .
Sparklingbrook · 12/01/2022 12:25

I was trying to think back to what I was doing in 1997. I did actually go to California in the November for a holiday but my lasting memory of that trip was taxi drivers asking if I had got over Diana's death yet. Hmm
I remember the LW case but don't remember thinking anything other than shock when she was found guilty and then relief when she got to come home.
I've probably taken more notice over the last few days than before that.

Cameleongirl · 12/01/2022 12:36

@mathanxiety

I know what you’re saying, but that’s why people amortize student loans and mortgages over decades so they can pay for what they need now-surely childcare should be a priority?

DH and I will be 60 before we’re free of student loan debt-I’m not joking, that’s how old we’ll be when it’s paid off! But you can do that and pay for what your children need.
@Cameleongirl
Yes, loans and mortgages are amortized in the US. And of course childcare is a priority.

My DS is currently in med school and by the time he graduates he will owe almost $400k. By the time he pays all of that off it will amount to over $1m. He will also have a mortgage and most likely a car loan, and will have malpractice insurance premiums and loan insurance payments to make. Plus life insurance. And whatever he will have to pay his accountant. The US is an expensive place in which to try to afford to practice medicine.

If DS ever has children he will probably not see much of them. If as is likely he marries a fellow doctor, she will rarely see the children either.

The Eappens were doing their utmost to get good quality care, as they perceived it, and paying the going rate.

Childcare is undervalued and underpaid because women's work is undervalued. It is more then likely that Deborah Eappen was paid less than her male colleagues at that time and perhaps even now.

It is simply not the Eappens' fault that Louise Woodward was phoning it in. The malice toward them based on hiring this person who was not interested in doing her job is not fair.

It is eye-wateringly expensive here. Your DS should definitely talk to the loan providers and get the best deal he can-we’re currently paying less than 1% interest on student loans due to a good repayment record. We couldn’t get that rate right after grad school, but did after a few years.
LethargeMarg · 12/01/2022 13:26

Sorry if this had already been discussed but how did you afford one of oj simpsons 'dream team' lawyers? Or did he do it cheap for the publicity of such a high profile case ?

LethargeMarg · 12/01/2022 13:29

@Gilmorehill

The footage of the villagers cheering when the appeal verdict was announced was disgusting. A young baby had died. There was no respect to the family or his memory.
My uni housemate at the time was from Elton - they vaguely knew Louise- I got the impression it was a minority of villagers who got swept up in all the drama - there were journalists from the Us everywhere in the village at the time. A lot of locals were quite embarrassed by the campaigning apparently.
Sparklingbrook · 12/01/2022 13:29

@LethargeMarg

Sorry if this had already been discussed but how did you afford one of oj simpsons 'dream team' lawyers? Or did he do it cheap for the publicity of such a high profile case ?
I might be wrong but I think her lawyers were arranged and paid for by the agency?