Louise Woodward The Killer Nanny. did she do it?

[HeckinMiffed]

This was such a huge case when I was younger. Anyone else watching?
I always thought she didnt deliberately kill the baby.

@StellaGibson118

I find it bit strange how people say she was young, too young to look after a child etc yet she was an adult by law and could have been a parent herself. I had assumed she was about 14 before I read the case.

But would you leave your young child and baby in the FT care (I notice the US au pair regulations on the EF website mean they can work 45 hours per week, no more than 10 hours a day, whereas UK government guidelines say 30 hrs max) of a foreign teenager you’d never previously met, and whose ‘qualifications’ were a supposed 200 hours of previous childcare experience, a driving licence, and no criminal record?

The pay on the EF agency website is given as ‘at least $195.75 a week.’ A nanny in Boston now could expect $30 an hour.

@CaroleFuckingBaskin

Is it 3 nights in a row? Was hoping I could watch all tonight

I watched it on Netflix I think so should be able to watch it all.

All three episodes were on catch up .

@StellaGibson118

I find it bit strange how people say she was young, too young to look after a child etc yet she was an adult by law and could have been a parent herself. I had assumed she was about 14 before I read the case.

She could have been a parent herself but v young to have a 3 year old and an 8 month old I would say.

Yes, @Cameleongirl, me too. But I also remember people who took the piss - not friends of mine but when I was young peoples bosses etc who seemed to treat the au pair like a slave.

it should never have been a guilty verdict the jurors didnt even understand the medical evidence- ridiculous to go guilty when yorue not sure

@cameleongirl, earning potential doesn't equal dollars in the bank when your career is starting out.

They were young doctors working long hours. They probably had medical school loans to pay off, a mortgage, and car payments too.

Young doctors do insane hours and it isn't possible to get childcare to cover every quirk of your schedule when you might be on call ( i.e. have to get up and head to the hospital at 4 am, or spend a week bunking in the hospital quarters when on call).

Watching it now. I'm not surprised looking at it, that there were comments on her demeanour, not just on the stand but in sitting there listening to all that's being said, it is hard to believe she isn't reacting, shaking her head, looking upset etc at what is suggested happened. Of course it looks now like SBS was unlikely, although it's still not clear what caused Matthew's death, but I can understand the comments. The fact there had already been issues with the hours she kept, phonecalls etc didn't look good.

Not that you're saying it's ok but their argument about using her - if things are tough for you that doesnt make it ok to exploit someone else. I am in london and there's lots of nannies/cleaners/car wash peopld being exploited for a low wage (as well aa many many ones earning a good wage). You can't take your troubles out on someone less educated/rich/etc than you

Just watching part 3 now.
How terrible for all of them.
Hearing Deborah speak and seeing her she doesn't come across as vindictive. She comes across as wishing above all else that's his had never happened.
Such a sad, sad case.

I actually felt sorry for her defence team especially the lead guy. He looked as though he was about to throw up when the verdict was read out.

Whilst I would have never left my baby with such an unqualified young person for such long hours, I don't think it's productive to start slinging mid about working parents.

Mud not mid.

The celebration was very OTT and in bad taste considering a baby had died.

@mathanxiety. I know what you’re saying, but that’s why people amortize student loans and mortgages over decades so they can pay for what they need now-surely childcare should be a priority?

DH and I will be 60 before we’re free of student loan debt-I’m not joking, that’s how old we’ll be when it’s paid off! But you can do that and pay for what your children need.

[quote Cameleongirl]@mathanxiety. I know what you’re saying, but that’s why people amortize student loans and mortgages over decades so they can pay for what they need now-surely childcare should be a priority?

DH and I will be 60 before we’re free of student loan debt-I’m not joking, that’s how old we’ll be when it’s paid off! But you can do that and pay for what your children need.[/quote]
But as mathanxiety has also repeatedly posted, teenage babysitting culture in the US is immense, it’s really commonplace for teenage girls to babysit for family friends and neighbours from the age of about 13/14 (certainly 25 years ago, and still now - loads of DP’s friends back in the US have teenage neighbours or nieces babysitting their toddlers and grade schoolers on date night or whilst they run errands.) If the Eappens didn’t know that that’s actually quite unusual in the UK, which is likely, they may well have not realised that their British au pair may literally have never held a baby before. They very probably assumed that she had several years’ of experience of babysitting behind her and was responsible - as well as being a native English speaker and therefore easier to communicate their wishes for their children to than the majority of childcare providers who in the US tend to be non-native with varying standards of English.

As a 17yo I babysat 9-6pm Mon-Fri during the summer holidays, returning maybe twice a week for night time babysitting. Baby 9m, older child 4. Not unusual at time (Irl).

I know, I live on the East Coast and teenage babysitters are v. common here. As are au pairs. I still wouldn’t leave a baby and toddler with a 19-year-old as their full-time caregiver, I don’t know anyone who’s done that.

But, tines have changed and perhaps we’ve all learnt from the tragedy.

Totally different if it’s a couple of hours in the evening though.

The Eappens were not just having LW babysit on date nights and whilst they ran errands,she was minding a three year old and eight month old for long days ,and they were also not happy with the care she provided.

[quote mathanxiety]@cameleongirl, earning potential doesn't equal dollars in the bank when your career is starting out.

They were young doctors working long hours. They probably had medical school loans to pay off, a mortgage, and car payments too.

Young doctors do insane hours and it isn't possible to get childcare to cover every quirk of your schedule when you might be on call ( i.e. have to get up and head to the hospital at 4 am, or spend a week bunking in the hospital quarters when on call).[/quote]
I get that they were young doctors, in a tough spot with childcare. But the answer really isn’t to hire and exploit an aupair. I would expect someone who needed a round the clock on call childcare provider (which is what you’d need to cover those bunking in the hospital 4am issues you mention) to hire a very well paid nanny with experience of baby care and used to/expecting odd hours.

It really annoys me that people think they can get a proxy parent/full time nanny for aupair money. It is just very unfair and exploitative. Nannies generally are well paid and will have an employment contract, aupairs are ‘helpers’ who are paid pocket money.

And while my sympathy for them is never ending as they’ve suffered my worst nightmare, you need to think of your childcare options before buying a house, having two kids, and working long hours jobs. Not have the two children then hire an aupair who leaves then another one you know to be irresponsible to try and cover yourself on the cheap.

And I’m a hundred percent against the infantilising of teens and young adults that’s so common on here - I had my own two babies at 19 and managed fine! But to hire a young woman (or anyone of any age really) who is paid a small amount, her work should reflect that small payment. Some care of two very very small children is not reflective of aupair level responsibility.

*sole care, that should say! All day sole care of babies isn’t aupair appropriate

@Kanaloa

And I’m a hundred percent against the infantilising of teens and young adults that’s so common on here - I had my own two babies at 19 and managed fine! But to hire a young woman (or anyone of any age really) who is paid a small amount, her work should reflect that small payment. Some care of two very very small children is not reflective of aupair level responsibility.

Absolutely and I also don't doubt there are plenty of 19 who go into childcare as a career and are excellent at their jobs As an au pair I don't think most people do it for the child care experience,it's the moving abroad and seeing a bit of the world most people want and the au pairs duties and tasks should reflect their payment .

Same era, as per my all day duties above, I didn't get 100 a week, nor was I getting bed and board.. Yo just can't judge it on today's standards. My family were also two well paid professionals, they were absolutely lovely but paying going tiny rate at time.